Recording bass is a pain in the....[b]ass

[Professor Dickweed]

I just finished rerecording some bass tracks with fellow forumite Matt. This weekend we tried recording with just one mic and a direct line, but the bass sounded in distinct and flubby. Matt did some great research and found that boosting the mids with 4 mics 8 inches away from the cab would do the trick. Sure enough, it did. I'll be damned if my cab didn't look like it was giving a press conference.

Crappy cell phone pic:

[Tommy Eisen]

I know how to record the fuck out of some bass, Dirty Grindy, Stand up, clean and punchy, you name it. What kind of a sound were you going for?

[Filter500]

Cool that it works, but that just seems like too much. Is that really how a lot of pros do it? I know some people just go direct on the bass...

[nakedzen]

What bass did you use? With bass the base tone of the instrument has to be good. Some cheapo basses sound flubby and dark no matter what you do. Here's a good thread :

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/642581-flames-come-clarity-bass-sound.html

But multiple mics sound great I agree. We got a great bass tone once with a mix of SM57 (or maybe it was an Audix i5), MD421 and a Rode NT1A plus di with distortion.

[TyroneBiggums]

Split the signal. Mic cab for low end girth, use DI for clarity.


Also, don't use an SM57. That shit isn't helping you

[Cirrus]

Also, don't use an SM57. That shit isn't helping you

Depends on so much, but I got a great bass tone with an SM57 once. Wasn't bothered about extreme low end or clear highs for that song, and the 57 sat the bass exactly where I wanted it - above the Kick and Toms.

Recording bass doesn't need to be rocket science. The secret is one good sounding bass into a good sounding amp, played well. If you've got that, you just need to pick a sound that fits the song. So much of the sound of a bass is in how it's played, it's an instrument where tone really is in the fingers.

I'd say generally you want a bass sound that has more treble and midrange than many people are used to. If you dial in a deep, huge tone in the room it'll sound small/ dull/ indistinct when it's played back at mix volumes. But with midrange and treble you get clarity in the mix, and once it's suitably compressed the bottom will tend to fill out or at least become more punchy.

[draelyc]

Man, I would have no clue how to record bass "for real," but for my home project, bass has been way easier than guitar. For some reason, the built in modeling sounds for bass in my recording deck sound way better & more usable than any of their guitar counterparts.

I love reading threads like this, though, precisely because of my ignorance. Carry on, lads!

[Matt]

Cool that it works, but that just seems like too much. Is that really how a lot of pros do it? I know some people just go direct on the bass...

Oh, there's nothing "pro" about this, lol. We basically threw all the mics we had at it assuming at least one would sound good. We also ran direct, so 5 tracks of bass and it sounds pretty good. The 57 is there just to pick up the high frequencies, for a little more attack.

Plus, just because we recorded 5 tracks definitely doesn't mean we are using them all. We'll use what sounds good and toss the rest.

[Matt]

I'd say generally you want a bass sound that has more treble and midrange than many people are used to. If you dial in a deep, huge tone in the room it'll sound small/ dull/ indistinct when it's played back at mix volumes. But with midrange and treble you get clarity in the mix, and once it's suitably compressed the bottom will tend to fill out or at least become more punchy.

This was the issue with the first time recording it. Sounded great in the room, tons of lows, but once we started mixing, it was indistinct and flubby.

[GAS KING]

For bass, I've always recorded directly.

dirty heavy fuzzed out bass, I tend to split my signal before the pedals/preamps.
Record one clean DI, and one effected. pretty standard I think.

I have tried to record a live tone with a mic, but never had too much luck.


I've used a Mesa BottleRocket and Catalinbread SFT as preamps, along with some rack bass preamps.......by far the SFT has been the best.

[fretless]

I always go direct , either a Demeter VTMP dual mic pre ( great preamp for anything ) or lunchbox pre . I always use a wee bit of compression on the input channel and some at mix down . I will sometimes split it and use a sansamp or mic an amp and blend . I also like IK's Ampeg SVX which can save the time of mic'n up a rig . There are endless ways to track bass , some pros have used 15 tracks or more for bass alone . I like it simple , good soild bass with a little character , I have to have that "fret noise" that clank that cuts through and helps define the bass guitar . If it's fretless I'll add a little 'verb to make it sing . Get a good solid direct track with a good pre and good levels that sits right and has clarity and punch and then blend in whatever other tracks you want , you could even reamp which is sometimes easier as you don't need to get a good amp sound at that moment .

[RSBro]

Go direct in, then reamp through a guitar amp for some bite.
My bazz sounded awesome on our EP and that's what I did. Didn't even use an actual "bass amp rig" and you'd never know.

But yeah, the "rocket science" of bass is just having the "right" one in the first place. As much as I wanted to use my precious Spector NS-5, that bass did not track at all in the right EQ range for what our sound needed. Was way too dark with the strings I had on and just overall tone. I used an Ibby BTB Custom w/ Bartolini's and a Bart pre and that was the sound, just naturally. I went and got a Lakland 55-94 w/ the Bart+Bart setup afterwards and that fits "sonically" so much better, even live.
Cheaper basses can and a lot of times definitely have that "dark/blanketed" sound that you're referencing. It's almost too colored before you're even hitting the DI.

[RSBro]

I used an Ibby BTB Custom w/ Bartolini's and a Bart pre and that was the sound, just naturally. I went and got a Lakland 55-94 w/ the Bart+Bart setup afterwards and that fits "sonically" so much better, even live.

Bro, BRO! BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I bought a BTB with the Bartolini full electronics used a couple years back. That thing is probably my favorite bass I've ever played. It feels good and sounds good, but I'd hate to lug it around on stage. Weighs a gat damn metric ton. Always sounds so damn good though.

Easiest bass in the world to fit in a full mix. Just slices through.

It's really the Bart+Bart setup mang. Back when I was playing Moduluses (Modulii?? lol) that's what they all had in them, and my Lakky 5 has a J/MM setup and it just crushes. Sounds so friggin good.
I ended up moving that BTB bc I wanted this Lakland (which is a '99, back when they were still made good!) and am glad I made the switch, but that Bartolini-equipped BTB was easily the best $$ I'd ever spent on a bass, for price:performance ratio. Like you said, it just "fits" in the mix w/out being overpowering or overbearing. Good stuff.

[MikeO]

I've always found that for recording bass, Direct is the way to go. I always got great bass tones recording direct, and never EVER got even passable bass tones by miking cabs. Just my experience.

[thefyn]

I record bass with a Sansamp bass driver and everything on 5. Fresh strings are mucho important. I tried to mic one but it sounded like shite.

[OverDriven]

4 mics?? You're going to be fighting phasing issues like crazy. I've always had the best recorded bass tones by going direct into my Saffire Pro 40 and using a few plugins to add dirt. Sounds great. IMO the setup you're using is overkill and prone to problems.

Also FWIW I used to get some great bass tones by micing my Mark IV on the clean channel running into a Mesa 2x12 with a single SM57. It sounded REALLY good. The direct approach sounds just as good though and is easier. One other tip - depending on the song, lately I've been adding a synthesized sub bass under the acoustic bass. It's just a plain sine wave - nothing fancy at all, and set so it hits the really low frequencies around 40-80hz. Mix it in subtly and it makes the bass sound absolutely massive.

[gb74]

4 mics?? You're going to be fighting phasing issues like crazy. I've always had the best recorded bass tones by going direct into my Saffire Pro 40 and using a few plugins to add dirt. Sounds great. IMO the setup you're using is overkill and prone to problems.

I agree. I get the best results by going direct and adding a few plug ins. Bass is really easy to record IMHO and the simpler the better.

[Cirrus]

I was gonna mention the 4 mic phase disaster thing, but then I remembered that sometimes phase "problems" can get you great interesting tones so it wouldn't be fair to judge the recording without hearing it... case in point:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwDDswGsJ60[/video]

I've had good results with one 57 on a 4x10, an LDC on same cab, a ribbon on a 1x15 for smoother tones, direct from bass to preamp, D.I.'d via a sansamp, split between a bass and guitar amp, multi-miked with LDC and '57, D/I and mic... (EDIT: not all at the same time lol)

There's so many ways to do it, I basically just take the approach of doing whatever I feel like that day that I think will work best. Or if something worked in the past and I think that tone would work again, I'll go back to that.

The trick, as always, is to get the best tone you can, record it, and listen in context. If it doesn't work, change something. In the case of multiple tracks of one bass take, be aware of phase. Move the mic back and forward, delay the D.I track by a few MS, line up those peaks and listen... BUT:

The difference between an amateur and a pro here is that an amateur will visually line up the peaks of two tracks, hear that there's more bass, and think they've made it "right". A pro will use their ears to decide whether that's actually right for the song, whether a different phase relationship actually makes the tone more interesting in the mix by accentuating different frequencies... they'll probably also be aware that every component the signal chain of every track changes the relative phase of different frequencies in different ways: so there is no longer any absolute in or out of phase between different tracks, it's just a question of which bits you want to be in phase or out of phase and the only way to know that is to forget the whole technical aspect of "phase" and just use your ears.

Finally, if at all possible don't record your 5 tracks of bass and think "I'll make that bass sound great once it's time to mix it. I've got so many choices between my Bass DI, Bass 57, Bass 112, Bass audix whatever etc, I'm so clever for leaving my options open."



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DECIDE NOW. COMMIT. Get the absolute best bass tone you can get for the song that day, whether it be with one mic or 5, decide on the balance, and bounce it down to one track called "Bass Guitar".

You lose the chance to re-balance later, but in the mix you should be working on the big picture at all times, not getting caught up in the little details like what ratio of D112 to 57 you should use. That way lies madness and confusion and loss of artistic vision. You need the mix to be simple and obvious when laid out before you, so you can understand it all in order to comprehend the whole thing so you can take it to its conclusion.

If you don't understand what the hell I'm getting at or why it matters, go and listen to some people who are actually good at mixing and do it for a living (unlike me, I'm a nobody who just happens to care about this stuff). TheWombForums or the old prosoundweb (if it was archived anywhere) are both filled with pros who say the same.

[Matt]

4 mics?? You're going to be fighting phasing issues like crazy. I've always had the best recorded bass tones by going direct into my Saffire Pro 40 and using a few plugins to add dirt. Sounds great. IMO the setup you're using is overkill and prone to problems.

Again, just because it was tracked with 4 mics does not mean 4 mics will be mixed into the recording. Also, the tracking is already done and it sounds fucking great. The reason we did that was just so we didn't need to spend time testing each mic to see what sounds best.

Here's a question, if you're running a great sounding rig, why not just record it?

[KCTigerChief]

Muhfucking people who can't read up in this thread! Or are too lazy to read before they post

That said, the tones that were had sound good. I have always recorded direct too, and have always got great tones...but like Matt said, when you have a nice rig, and it sounds good in the room, you may as well work on recording THAT sound, since everything else we are recording is raw and huge

[GAS KING]

sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.

[Matt]

sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.

That's not what cocaine told me...

[Professor Dickweed]

sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.

That's not what cocaine told me...

Goddammit....I knew it was a matter of time before someone in the band developed a cocaine habit! Bravo, Matt.