In particularly the overhead sound. I've been experimenting with mic position trying to get a wider stereo field on the overheads. I'm really happy with these results.
Normally I go for high and wide overheads which gives a good overall drum sound but not the widest stereo field. I watched a bunch of live studio videos with really wide sounding overheads and saw the cymbals individually mic'd about 2 feet above center. So I tried it last night. It definitely spreads out the sound. I think the cymbals sound better than my usual technique too.
I just threw mics at the rest of the kit and mixed this on headphones late last night so it isn't the best sound overall. Mostly focused on the OHs.
they need to come up 3 to 6 dB or the snare needs to drop down Then I can get a better idea , the snare has no crack , sounds like a tom . might wanna tweak that a bit to it could help make room for the OH
“Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more” ― Nikola Tesla
“I cannot be arsed with this right now” ― MISTER NOBODY™
"Stand up for what you believe in even if you are standing alone" ― Sophie Scholl
i'm with fretless. tune the snare higher-- kinda sounds like you need to back up a bit too. it all sounds a bit too closed in- and dump a bunch of lows.
what i'd do, generally, is get the overheads up higher, get a solid even mix with the 414s, and then start adding the close mics in to augment the live sound and flush it out.
fretless wrote:they need to come up 3 to 6 dB or the snare needs to drop down Then I can get a better idea , the snare has no crack , sounds like a tom . might wanna tweak that a bit to it could help make room for the OH
You think the OHs need to be louder?
I don't really care about the snare. With a little bit of time I'm sure I could make it sound fine. Like I said, I just threw mics at this. Really just talking about the overheads.
newholland wrote:i'm with fretless. tune the snare higher-- kinda sounds like you need to back up a bit too. it all sounds a bit too closed in- and dump a bunch of lows.
what i'd do, generally, is get the overheads up higher, get a solid even mix with the 414s, and then start adding the close mics in to augment the live sound and flush it out.
Dump a bunch of lows from what? Back up the overheads?
Colonel, Fryette Deathsquad
Guitars: Endres Offset Endres Offset Les Paul Endres Telebird 2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded 1978 Greco ES335 Balaguer Goliath Bass
id say judiciously cut lows from anything that isnt producing them, really. and id pull your ohs up to get a better view of the kit in general cause they usually breathe a lotta air into the deum track when they pick up some room and a broader range. ill usually goose em with a widish q centered about 1k too to bump the snare and attack of toms.
speaking of the OHs specifically, I think they could have a little more definition. It sounds like they're mic'd a bit too close. I can definitely hear the cymbals but I had a hard time telling what was being played on them... I'd move them up higher so there is less cross bleeding and more clarity and do the widening in the DAW with panning, stereo expanders etc etc..
Guitars: '78 Les Paul Pro / '89 SG Special/ '04 Gibson Les Paul Classic 3 pickup / Jackson Star/ Endres Tele / Fernandes Rhoads/ ''74 Hohner MIJ strat/ 2 Partscasters
Amps: Depends on when you ask. I got tired of constantly updating this section lol
Cabs Marshall 1960A w V30s/ Seismic 2x12 w Redback and V30.
Questions about the forum: please PM here. Can't access the forum? Need a password reset? Please access our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/GuitarGearForumOfficial and message me through it.
GuitarBilly wrote:speaking of the OHs specifically, I think they could have a little more definition. It sounds like they're mic'd a bit too close. I can definitely hear the cymbals but I had a hard time telling what was being played on them... I'd move them up higher so there is less cross bleeding and more clarity and do the widening in the DAW with panning, stereo expanders etc etc..
I could see what you mean. What I'm thinking it next time I'll try a 'more is better' approach. Mic the cymbals a little higher but also have a pair of overheads.
The overheads will provide the overall sound and I'll heavily filter the close mics and use them to enhance the stereo image.
Colonel, Fryette Deathsquad
Guitars: Endres Offset Endres Offset Les Paul Endres Telebird 2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded 1978 Greco ES335 Balaguer Goliath Bass
That sounds like a good plan. FWIW I loved the drum sound you got on your previous demo. So whatever you did there worked really well.
Guitars: '78 Les Paul Pro / '89 SG Special/ '04 Gibson Les Paul Classic 3 pickup / Jackson Star/ Endres Tele / Fernandes Rhoads/ ''74 Hohner MIJ strat/ 2 Partscasters
Amps: Depends on when you ask. I got tired of constantly updating this section lol
Cabs Marshall 1960A w V30s/ Seismic 2x12 w Redback and V30.
Questions about the forum: please PM here. Can't access the forum? Need a password reset? Please access our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/GuitarGearForumOfficial and message me through it.
GuitarBilly wrote:That sounds like a good plan. FWIW I loved the drum sound you got on your previous demo. So whatever you did there worked really well.
Thanks Billy! I really appreciate that.
I've been working really hard at getting pro quality drum sounds. My problem areas right now are getting great snare tone (I think its partially a tuning issue) and getting a really wide stereo field. I realize that my drums are probably already plenty stereo I just love a wide image.
I realize these drums don't sound like I have it figured out but it was 100% just an experiment in the overhead placement. Nothing was tuned and I used shit mics anything that wasn't a cymbal.
Colonel, Fryette Deathsquad
Guitars: Endres Offset Endres Offset Les Paul Endres Telebird 2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded 1978 Greco ES335 Balaguer Goliath Bass
I've never seen anyone mic every cymbal. At least not on a real acoustic kit.
I could see getting away with that technique if one was using a v-kit for all the drums and running samples, but using real cymbals.
Using that many mics, assuming condensers, on what is technically an OH, you'll be having all kinds of phasing/filter issues. It'll affect the drums the most, since that snare will be being picked up in like 6-7 mics. One of the secrets to a great snare tone is the OHs. By having the OHs being the exact distance from the snare so they each pick up that snare pop the same. Break out the tape measure. In this picture that snare is reaching those mics at completely different intervals.. Even tho you say this isn't about the snare, I think it goes to show your snare tone isn't there with this mic placement either..
Any Tom mics also pick up snare, but you can gate those easily if you want. Can't be gating cymbal or OH mics, so the less the better.
I'll mic the high hat and under side of the ride, but I use those very low and just to add a touch of definition. Majority of those are still picked up by the OHs
_ej_ wrote:and getting a really wide stereo field. I realize that my drums are probably already plenty stereo I just love a wide image.
This is done more with mixing decisions than the mic setup (unless you want to swap your overheads to a M/S pattern). Automate your OH pans so that quieter sections are panned more to the center and choruses are panned wider. This will create an illusion of a wider mix.
Don't put everything 100% L&R all the time. Also eq the left and right channels differently.
Mostly focused on the OHs.
