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By far the hardest question for me........

Those with the ability to pay should have access to higher standards of medical care.



Although I strongly disagreed with astrology having any significance, I hate being a Libra

I always score in the middle of all tests!

My brother, who is a big Trump fan, took the test and was surprised to wind up in the green.

Made me realize that, many people don't know what Liberalism means, they just think it's a bad.

From a quick, Google search....

"Politically, Liberalism means; a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets."

"Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."

ajaxlepinski wrote:My brother, who is a big Trump fan, took the test and was surprised to wind up in the green.

Made me realize that, many people don't know what Liberalism means, they just think it's a bad.

From a quick, Google search....

"Politically, Liberalism means; a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets."

"Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE[/video]

long standing member wrote:Although I strongly disagreed with astrology having any significance, I hate being a Libra

I always score in the middle of all tests!

I feel you brother! Being centered and balanced is so boring!

I always forget how nice it is to be centered and balances... until I have a three day hangover.


Will check out the Left or Liberal vid after work.

That test is fucking shit. The questions are leading as fuck and lack the point of proper political leanings.

CrunchBerries wrote:That test is fucking shit. The questions are leading as fuck and lack the point of proper political leanings.

fucking a

"Are you in favor of free bus passes for war widows?"

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:My brother, who is a big Trump fan, took the test and was surprised to wind up in the green.

Made me realize that, many people don't know what Liberalism means, they just think it's a bad.

From a quick, Google search....

"Politically, Liberalism means; a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets."

"Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE[/video]

I'm confused...
In this video, who is the gentleman referring to as "the Left"?
I thought, the Right meant, the right side of the aisle (Republicans)and the Left meant the left side of the aisle (Democrats).
The video appears to bash the Democrats (Left) while it promotes Liberalism.... and of course, every Republican cringes at the word, "Liberal".
So, who are the Left? The video makes it sound like white supremacists are part of the Left?
I though hippies, were left or, are they liberals? Are leftists, commies?
Can a Republican be, God forbid, a Liberal????

Some of the questions are lacking any sort of context to tell if I would agree with or disagree with...so I just selected something and here is what i got...

ajaxlepinski wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:My brother, who is a big Trump fan, took the test and was surprised to wind up in the green.

Made me realize that, many people don't know what Liberalism means, they just think it's a bad.

From a quick, Google search....

"Politically, Liberalism means; a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets."

"Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE[/video]

I'm confused...
In this video, who is the gentleman referring to as "the Left"?
I thought, the Right meant, the right side of the aisle (Republicans)and the Left meant the left side of the aisle (Democrats).
The video appears to bash the Democrats (Left) while it promotes Liberalism.... and of course, every Republican cringes at the word, "Liberal".
So, who are the Left? The video makes it sound like white supremacists are part of the Left?
I though hippies, were left or, are they liberals? Are leftists, commies?
Can a Republican be, God forbid, a Liberal????

Hippies flirt with communism and far leftism leads to some form of Marxism if you carry the torch far enough.

The intended point of that video is to show how the current understanding of the landscape has very little in common with the traditional meaning of being what a liberal has classically been.

Seems accurate.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpo ... &soc=-3.44

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

long standing member wrote:Although I strongly disagreed with astrology having any significance, I hate being a Libra

I always score in the middle of all tests!

I feel you brother! Being centered and balanced is so boring!

Damn! have you been stalking me?

At least I'm not a commie

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:My brother, who is a big Trump fan, took the test and was surprised to wind up in the green.

Made me realize that, many people don't know what Liberalism means, they just think it's a bad.

From a quick, Google search....

"Politically, Liberalism means; a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets."

"Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE[/video]

I'm confused...
In this video, who is the gentleman referring to as "the Left"?
I thought, the Right meant, the right side of the aisle (Republicans)and the Left meant the left side of the aisle (Democrats).
The video appears to bash the Democrats (Left) while it promotes Liberalism.... and of course, every Republican cringes at the word, "Liberal".
So, who are the Left? The video makes it sound like white supremacists are part of the Left?
I though hippies, were left or, are they liberals? Are leftists, commies?
Can a Republican be, God forbid, a Liberal????

Hippies flirt with communism and far leftism leads to some form of Marxism if you carry the torch far enough.

The intended point of that video is to show how the current understanding of the landscape has very little in common with the traditional meaning of being what a liberal has classically been.

Damn hippies!!!

So, it sounds like Democrats and Republicans can simultaneously be Liberal?

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:My brother, who is a big Trump fan, took the test and was surprised to wind up in the green.

Made me realize that, many people don't know what Liberalism means, they just think it's a bad.

From a quick, Google search....

"Politically, Liberalism means; a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets."

"Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE[/video]

I think I'd be more interested in having a liberal and/or a leftist tell us what liberals and leftists believe, than hearing a conservative "explain" what liberals and leftists believe.

Wikipedia wrote:Dennis Mark Prager (/ˈpreɪɡər/) is an American nationally syndicated radio talk show host and writer. He is Jewish and deeply religious, and his views generally align with the Christian right. He founded PragerU, an American non-profit organization that creates videos on various political, economic, and philosophical topics from a conservative perspective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Prager

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:My brother, who is a big Trump fan, took the test and was surprised to wind up in the green.

Made me realize that, many people don't know what Liberalism means, they just think it's a bad.

From a quick, Google search....

"Politically, Liberalism means; a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender and race equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets."

"Conservative: holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE[/video]

I'm confused...
In this video, who is the gentleman referring to as "the Left"?
I thought, the Right meant, the right side of the aisle (Republicans)and the Left meant the left side of the aisle (Democrats).
The video appears to bash the Democrats (Left) while it promotes Liberalism.... and of course, every Republican cringes at the word, "Liberal".
So, who are the Left? The video makes it sound like white supremacists are part of the Left?
I though hippies, were left or, are they liberals? Are leftists, commies?
Can a Republican be, God forbid, a Liberal????

Hippies flirt with communism and far leftism leads to some form of Marxism if you carry the torch far enough.

The intended point of that video is to show how the current understanding of the landscape has very little in common with the traditional meaning of being what a liberal has classically been.

The distinction between "liberalism" and so-called "classical liberalism" is an obsession of the modern Right.

A much more important distinction is that between "liberalism," which is a left-of-center POV that has essentially been the bedrock of Western democracy, and "neo-liberalism," which is a laissez-faire, de-regulated approach to economics that's basically conservatism repackaged in superficially centrist or liberal rhetoric.

draelyc wrote:I think I'd be more interested in having a liberal and/or a leftist tell us what liberals and leftists believe, than hearing a conservative "explain" what liberals and leftists believe.

I'll remember that the next time you think you know what it is that conservatives and right wingers believe.

It's really cool how per usual you strawman the video and dismiss without objecting substantively to anything actually stated in the video.

Good job Rev.

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

draelyc wrote:I think I'd be more interested in having a liberal and/or a leftist tell us what liberals and leftists believe, than hearing a conservative "explain" what liberals and leftists believe.

I'll remember that the next time you think you know what it is that conservatives and right wingers believe.

It's really cool how per usual you strawman the video and dismiss without objecting substantively to anything actually stated in the video.

Good job Rev.

Hey, it's a fair criticism going both ways, one I'm working to incorporate into my life and practice. I've got enormous personal bias against libertarianism as a philosophy. In no small part because of that bias, because I'm aware of it, I've begun an ongoing conversation with a friend here IRL who enthusiastically self-identifies as Libertarian ~ I figure that's the best way for me to get a closer idea of what Libertarianism actually *is*, as opposed to sitting back and reading internet "sources" filtered through my pre-existing bias.

I didn't respond to the video itself because it wasn't the interesting part of your post. The interesting part of your post is the way it's the latest example in a pattern of posts from you over the past year or two in which you puff yourself up as if you're presenting an intellectual perspective that is broad and balanced and that rests upon a foundation of solid academic research ... yet the only sources you ever post up just happen to be right wing media sensations. That's just ... really funny to me. So that's the part of your post I responded to.

Was there something in particular in the video that you found especially compelling that you'd like me to respond to specifically? If so, I'll force myself to sit through it. Or was your big point just that you want folks to believe that "liberal" and "leftist" are categorically different labels? If the latter is the case, okay, well, there's not much point in watching the vid just for that one "point," is there?

Good job, uh, what's your title?

P.S. I didn't "strawman" the video (interesting "verbing" of "strawman," btw), because I didn't respond to it at all. But nice job playing fast and loose with the facts.

draelyc wrote:The distinction between "liberalism" and so-called "classical liberalism" is an obsession of the modern Right.

A much more important distinction is that between "liberalism," which is a left-of-center POV that has essentially been the bedrock of Western democracy, and "neo-liberalism," which is a laissez-faire, de-regulated approach to economics that's basically conservatism repackaged in superficially centrist or liberal rhetoric.

You sir have traveled so far out to sea that you no longer see the classical liberal lighthouse.

If the left/liberals haven't drifted so far out leftward than why is there a new "party" called the Democratic Socialists of America, and why are so many of the status quo democrats willing to buddy up with the wave of millennial radical progressivism?

Keep telling yourself that liberalism has always been identical to progressivism and that there's never been a need to distinguish them.

HEY! You two kids, play nice!

Since you're both online.... Drae & Rubato...

Can Democrats and Republicans be Liberals, simultaneously? I'd like to hear both your opinions because, according to the vid, the answer is YES.

draelyc wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

draelyc wrote:I think I'd be more interested in having a liberal and/or a leftist tell us what liberals and leftists believe, than hearing a conservative "explain" what liberals and leftists believe.

I'll remember that the next time you think you know what it is that conservatives and right wingers believe.

It's really cool how per usual you strawman the video and dismiss without objecting substantively to anything actually stated in the video.

Good job Rev.

Hey, it's a fair criticism going both ways, one I'm working to incorporate into my life and practice. I've got enormous personal bias against libertarianism as a philosophy. In no small part because of that bias, because I'm aware of it, I've begun an ongoing conversation with a friend here IRL who enthusiastically self-identifies as Libertarian ~ I figure that's the best way for me to get a closer idea of what Libertarianism actually *is*, as opposed to sitting back and reading internet "sources" filtered through my pre-existing bias.

I didn't respond to the video itself because it wasn't the interesting part of your post. The interesting part of your post is the way it's the latest example in a pattern of posts from you over the past year or two in which you puff yourself up as if you're presenting an intellectual perspective that is broad and balanced and that rests upon a foundation of solid academic research ... yet the only sources you ever post up just happen to be right wing media sensations. That's just ... really funny to me. So that's the part of your post I responded to.

Was there something in particular in the video that you found especially compelling that you'd like me to respond to specifically? If so, I'll force myself to sit through it. Or was your big point just that you want folks to believe that "liberal" and "leftist" are categorically different labels? If the latter is the case, okay, well, there's not much point in watching the vid just for that one "point," is there?

Good job, uh, what's your title?

P.S. I didn't "strawman" the video (interesting "verbing" of "strawman," btw), because I didn't respond to it at all. But nice job playing fast and loose with the facts.

You're insufferable dude. Just say "I didn't watch the video because I already know what I need to know."

And what facts am I playing loosely with exactly?

I have to agree with Rubato... Drae, you really should watch the whole video... you know, to add realism, substance and authenticity to one's comments.

ajaxlepinski wrote:Since you're both online.... Drae & Rubato...

Can Democrats and Republicans be Liberals, simultaneously? I'd like to hear both your opinions because, according to the vid, the answer is YES.

Yes the answer is yes, specifically because the parties are just parties, and do not specifically define a political ideology. There has been role reversal between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party on a whole multitude of issues, and any one person who leans in a particular direction could easily change allegiances based on such party platform changes.

For example, if the Democrats keep going towards identity politics and socialism then their party platform will resemble very little of what was 19th and early 20th century liberalism.


Come at my facts Drae. Come tell me how I'm playing loosely with them here.

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:Since you're both online.... Drae & Rubato...

Can Democrats and Republicans be Liberals, simultaneously? I'd like to hear both your opinions because, according to the vid, the answer is YES.

Yes the answer is yes, specifically because the parties are just parties, and do not specifically define a political ideology. There has been role reversal between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party on a whole multitude of issues, and any one person who leans in a particular direction could easily change allegiances based on such party platform changes.

For example, if the Democrats keep going towards identity politics and socialism then their party platform will resemble very little of what was 19th and early 20th century liberalism.

Mind blown!
I find it perplexing that Republicans and pro-Republican media like, Fox, repeatedly bash Liberals while embracing many Liberal concepts.
This is very intriguing to me.... I have to do some research or, I will lose sleep tonight!