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Sorry, I wasn't poking at political! I just get a bit peeved when people besmirch the colossal effort that has gone into developing a vaccine.

I don't think it's political to mention that the full and complete testing process was shortened.

ajaxlepinski wrote:I don't think it's political to mention that the full and complete testing process was shortened.

From my understanding the testing process wasn't shortened, they just ran all the different regulatory processes in parallel instead of sequentially. While they were doing human trials the regulatory agencies were inspecting the manufacturing process and analyzing the trial data as it came out instead of all at once at the end.

Yep, the Oxford vaccine website has a video explaining this, along with links to various literature. Alas on mobile so I'm not wrestling with formatting the link

I dunno... The UK may have different rules, but in the US, it looks like Phases 1, 2, 3 & 4, of Stage 3 Testing, were cut short a bit.
For obvious safety reasons, Phases 1 through 4 (of Stage 3 testing) should not be run in parallel.
I don't have an issue with fast tracking of Stage 4 (the Government review of Stage 3 data)... as long as the Stage 3 data was collected properly... which it was not.
https://www.fda.gov/patients/drug-devel ... l-research

I'm not an antivaccer at all. I do however, realize that desperate politicians, economists and greedy corporations frequently bend the rules at the expense of the 99%.
A lot of people want to get the economy back in order and they don't care how it's done.

Fair enough, I don't really know anything about the US system so I can't comment on that.

A lot of drug companies complain about the lengthy drug testing process in the US, compared to Europe.
The reason for the lengthy testing is to combat greed on the part of Big Pharma corporations, not the scientists.
DO NOT click on this article if you have a weak stomach...
https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/ ... regulation


EDIT: I was born in 1960 and luckily, my mother opted not to take thalidomide for morning sickness.
There was one kid, who had the deformity, in my elementary school.

Just dropping this here without comment -

Zee News

Gee, that looks like a legit source.

no idea - I'm not up on my Indian former sports sites.............
(although I did google them to find out that much)

clipless bumper wrote:Just dropping this here without comment -

Zee News

Please do comment. What are you are trying to show with this link? That there are possible side effects? Show me one medication that doesn't.

GuitarBilly wrote:

clipless bumper wrote:Just dropping this here without comment -

Zee News

.......What are you are trying to show with this link? That there are possible side effects?......

Yes - how many have heard that palsy is a possible side effect - and they DON'T KNOW WHY?!!!?!!

Too me, that is a substantial point - but I can see why they wouldn't want that to be common knowledge.

My main point of not commenting was that I had really no idea as to the veracity of the source - thought someone else might. I'm not up on the politics of, or possible tabloids of India.

clipless bumper wrote:

GuitarBilly wrote:

clipless bumper wrote:Just dropping this here without comment -

Zee News

.......What are you are trying to show with this link? That there are possible side effects?......

Yes - how many have heard that palsy is a possible side effect - and they DON'T KNOW WHY?!!!?!!

Too me, that is a substantial point - but I can see why they wouldn't want that to be common knowledge.

My main point of not commenting was that I had really no idea as to the veracity of the source - thought someone else might. I'm not up on the politics of, or possible tabloids of India.

Never forget the concept of causation vs. correlation.

I understand it's application to certain instances - but in this case - causation would be that the vaccine CAUSED the palsy - and correlation would be ??????? coincidence??
and this is the sort of thing that would need to be sussed out in long term testing.

Also - the fact that they don't know why the subjects developed palsy is concerning to me.
Even though I am sure 4 cases is probably quite small percentage-wise.

clipless bumper wrote:I understand it's application to certain instances - but in this case - causation would be that the vaccine CAUSED the palsy - and correlation would be ??????? coincidence??
and this is the sort of thing that would need to be sussed out in long term testing.

Also - the fact that they don't know why the subjects developed palsy is concerning to me.
Even though I am sure 4 cases is probably quite small percentage-wise.

But they don't fully understand the cause of Bell's Palsy period.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/bells-palsy/symptoms-causes/syc-20370028
"Bell's palsy, also known as acute peripheral facial palsy of unknown cause, can occur at any age. The exact cause is unknown. It's believed to be the result of swelling and inflammation of the nerve that controls the muscles on one side of your face. Or it might be a reaction that occurs after a viral infection."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-vaccine-bells-palsy/
FDA: "Bell’s palsy was reported by four vaccine participants and none in the placebo group. These cases occurred at 3, 9, 37, and 48 days after vaccination. One case (onset at 3 days postvaccination) was reported as resolved with sequelae within three days after onset, and the other three were reported as continuing or resolving as of the November 14, 2020 data cut-off with ongoing durations of 10, 15, and 21 days, respectively. The observed frequency of reported Bell’s palsy in the vaccine group is consistent with the expected background rate in the general population, and there is no clear basis upon which to conclude a causal relationship at this time, but FDA will recommend surveillance for cases of Bell’s palsy with deployment of the vaccine into larger populations."

First off, bell's palsy is not "palsy", despite the name. It's a temporary, partial paralysis of the face that's often a symptom of the flu or other viral infections. It's a mild issue and for the most part resolves itself within a short period of time.

Second, what your "source" failed to mention is the trials had 44,000 subjects so 4 people with a relatively mild side effect is not a significant red flag.

That's why the 4 people are not the center of the discussion, not whatever conspiracy theory you're hinting at with your " I can see why they wouldn't want that to be common knowledge" comment.

according to snopes - the trial was actually 22,000 people - but still, a small percentage.
Why I didn't comment on the article - I don't think anything in the article is false - and people can interpret it anyway they feel appropriate.

I am not taking the vaccine - at least not in 2021 - articles about potential problems are of interest to me.

Feel free to de-bunk away - it's no skin off my nose.

If you apply the rate of 4 cases in 44,000 people to the population of the USA that's approximately 30k people. In perspective, COVID will kill more people than that in 10 days as things stand.

None of us will be getting the vaccine until March, I would guess. By that time, several hundred million people, world wide, will have been vaccinated and any other short term side effects will have come to light.

This was on the news yesterday. Two people had an unexpected reaction...
“Any person with a history of anaphylaxis to a vaccine, medicine or food should not receive the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine,” MHRA Chief Executive June Raine said in a statement.
The source is Reuters:
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SKBN28J1DK

Anaphylaxis:
A severe, potentially life-threatening allergic reaction.
The reaction can occur within seconds or minutes of exposure to an allergen.
Symptoms include a skin rash, nausea, vomiting, difficulty breathing, and shock.
If not treated right away, usually with epinephrine, it can result in unconsciousness or death.

Anaphylaxis is an uncommon side effect of vaccines in general, not surprising at all. This is why most doctors ask you to wait in the office for ~20 minutes after you get a shot; to make sure you don’t have an acute reaction.

It’s also not restricted to humans, can happen when you take your dog or cat to the vet for routine vaccines too.

You’re literally injecting foreign material into your body trying to stimulate an immune response so your body recognizes the foreign material in the future. Every once in a while someone will have a hyperactive immune response (anaphylactic reaction).

My two grandsons got the Covid. One is doing fine but the other is having weird blood pressure readings? Yesterday he was at 100/47 and a few days ago he was at 145/84. Time for him to see a doctor

Pepi wrote:My two grandsons got the Covid. One is doing fine but the other is having weird blood pressure readings? Yesterday he was at 100/47 and a few days ago he was at 145/84. Time for him to see a doctor

That's awful. I will keep him in my thoughts and I hope he gets better soon Pepi,

Thanks Billy

I got round one of the vaccine this morning.

If my posting becomes more erratic than usual, blame it on the 5G microfiche.

P has it. She's stuffy and her back is killing her.

Got tested yesterday and so did my daughter, we're waiting to hear.