Mixing/Mastering help

[MyNexRed2]

agreed- lots more kick needed, and waaaaay less hi hat
The material could use tweaking for strategic drops in the "voices", there's constantly guitars everywhere all the time doing different things.
For starters, take your 2 primary Rhythms and pan them hard LR. No reverb, no delay on these. I hear at least 1 more rhythm somewhere in the middle slightly left? That volume is way too high. If Primary LR is at 0 on the fader, bring that supplementary guitar down to around -7 or so. Probably could pan it more to the side or just get rid of it when the lead guitar enters. Those supporting rhythm guitars also sound worlds better if you use lo/mid gain- it can really pack a punch that way. I usually go hi gain primary guitars LR then bring in mid gain guitars 3 & 4 panned around 70% LR, but ditch them during solos (only use during the epic chorus type material).

You can try a Ride the Lightning EQ on the hi gain rhythms- hi pass around 60, give a huge and narrow boost at 150 to punch the chest. Slight mid scoop anywhere between 400-700 if needed.
Bass guitar can hi pass around 40 which is accented, but give a narrow cut at 80 to give room for the kick (boost kick at 80). Bass could also use some more highs maybe around 2.7k? Or skip all of this Bass eq and just buy the Kamer plugin which is stupid simple and sounds great for cheap- it will give you the comp & eq that is ready to roll.

More kick- that should be loudest thing in a mix, not the current f*ing hi hats. lol, that drives me nuts
Hope that helps!

Thanks man, appreciate the advice. On the last recording, you can hear what I did (maybe) I have 3 tracks for rhythm. 1 take panned hard left, 1 take panned hard right. 1 down the middle, just during the part where it's just rhythm guitar (all different takes) which I turn on and off. I did that to see how it would sound (better or worse) with it in there. Those tracks have nothing. Just low and high pass around 50, and 7k and a +2 200 bump. The rhythms are at -20db on the track fader.

Lead stuff is 2 melodies. 1 with reverb down the center, and another one 25 right with nothing. They are at -12.

I'll mess with the EQ some more and give it a shot, but the kick is what it is, I'd have to add my own, or maybe compress? Not sure.. that's why I'm askin' y'all because any more and the master is in the red. I cut the treble on the drum track, and it was still kish kish, I'll try again.

I'm doing this with no other plug ins.. I'd like to know what I'm doing before I drop the $ on other stuff, get a solid foundation, then get plug ins. Or maybe I should just get 'em .

Thanks man!

[rear naked]

dude wheres the kick and snare!?

Do you not have those tracks?

I used fretless's drum track, I try to make it as loud as possible, eq the best I can, and volume, but by the time I add everything else, the master is in the red, so I start lowering the other track volumes down, so you can still hear the drums but not be overpowered. Any suggestions?

Suggestions? yeah:

I would fire that drummer

[MyNexRed2]

dude wheres the kick and snare!?

Do you not have those tracks?

I used fretless's drum track, I try to make it as loud as possible, eq the best I can, and volume, but by the time I add everything else, the master is in the red, so I start lowering the other track volumes down, so you can still hear the drums but not be overpowered. Any suggestions?

Suggestions? yeah:

I would fire that drummer

It's all good, His is a recording of a recording... and it's still better than what I can do!

[MyNexRed2]

I like the 7k bump in master the most of all the clips you've posted in this thread. The drums are more prominent/not overpowered so much by the guitars. Bass playing sounds good but needs to be mixed a bit higher or if there is a compressor on there maybe it's squashing it too much?

Is there a low pass on the rhythm guitar tracks on this particular clip or did you remove it? When the rhythm guitars kick in later in the clip they are bit bright and scratchy and could use some low pass IMO. Not necessarily a lot, but just enough to take off the edge.

Again, I prefer this take over the others.

Thanks man! I'm tryin everything to get the bass more in the mix but not be boomy... I took the compressor off the bass in the last take, but added a mix gel (compressor) in the master. If I used it in the track, it plus the drums put the master in the red.

for bass I'm using a pv tnt 115 600 watter, mic'd with a shure beta 52a, maybe I should tri DI..

[RIFF]

I liked part DUH best.

You really cant use this as much of an example or practice session for your mixing, because of the drums. They were just done for a little drum jam fun & HEAVILY compressed. Theyre a big open, maybe vintagy type sound, but they arent really a match for the guitar sound youve got. Theyd match more of a casual marshall crunch or something.

If the drums werent there... While micing bass adds earth, & im a big proponent of this, you cant always get a GREAT bass sound mic'd unless youve got the right gear (which I dont have). Sometimes I mic it for earth but split the signal, getting the line out direct to another track. Then you can mix some direct signal with the mic'd for a little depth and clarity.


I dont like much processing on the guitars, I go straight into the amp, mic a speaker, & post processing consists of the Ignite PTEQ 1A, NOT the X. I generally attenuate lows at 30hz 2-5 notches, attenuate highs if needed, & boost mids @ 4,5 or 6k, a few notches. I was using a reapers stock eq, but it wasnt sounding as natural as this. No compression etc.


Also on a side note, a little accidental experience Ill share... I use EZD2, & was using the made of metal set. It sounded good, but I was eqing this & compressing that, etc.
Then on another song I used the same set, but for quick writing I did no processing. Just adjusted the ezd internal mixer a bit & wrote the song. I later went in & was listening to that mix compared to other songs Id done & realized the songs I processed the drums on, sounded weak & thin, the unfinished one, big, punchy & with depth. I now do a drum master with perhaps minor Eq, maybe some limiting, and only if needed, a little reverb on the snare.

[MyNexRed2]

I liked part DUH best.

You really cant use this as much of an example or practice session for your mixing, because of the drums. They were just done for a little drum jam fun & HEAVILY compressed. Theyre a big open, maybe vintagy type sound, but they arent really a match for the guitar sound youve got. Theyd match more of a casual marshall crunch or something.

If the drums werent there... While micing bass adds earth, & im a big proponent of this, you cant always get a GREAT bass sound mic'd unless youve got the right gear (which I dont have). Sometimes I mic it for earth but split the signal, getting the line out direct to another track. Then you can mix some direct signal with the mic'd for a little depth and clarity.


I dont like much processing on the guitars, I go straight into the amp, mic a speaker, & post processing consists of the Ignite PTEQ 1A, NOT the X. I generally attenuate lows at 30hz 2-5 notches, attenuate highs if needed, & boost mids @ 4,5 or 6k, a few notches. I was using a reapers stock eq, but it wasnt sounding as natural as this. No compression etc.


Also on a side note, a little accidental experience Ill share... I use EZD2, & was using the made of metal set. It sounded good, but I was eqing this & compressing that, etc.
Then on another song I used the same set, but for quick writing I did no processing. Just adjusted the ezd internal mixer a bit & wrote the song. I later went in & was listening to that mix compared to other songs Id done & realized the songs I processed the drums on, sounded weak & thin, the unfinished one, big, punchy & with depth. I now do a drum master with perhaps minor Eq, maybe some limiting, and only if needed, a little reverb on the snare.

Thanks man! Appreciate the advice, makes me feel a little better! I'll quit beating on this and let it go as is and start on some of my own stuff and let you guys hash on that! .

My bass amp has a DI line out, I'll try mixing them next time, thanks!

One thing I just noticed, going back and listening to other's takes, mine is 1/2 the volume of others', and my master is kissing the red! I know a lot is lost in transfer to soundcloud.. but those guys must be using something to boost volume... do you know what?

[Ostinato Rubato]

There's limiter techniques for simple mastering but there is mastering software for bringing up the final volume to commercial levels.

[fretless]

I pumped the shit out of my mix and used waaay too much compression and limiting and broke all the don't do rules so don't use mine as a reference

[ajaxlepinski]

BBE Sonic Suite... Sonic Maximizer, Harmonic Maximizer and Loudness Maximizer. It will be the best $149 you ever spent. (except for that BJ back in '02)
Use it on tracks and on the mix. BAM!

http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic- ... sweet.aspx

[clipless bumper]

I can't get behind BBE........

[ajaxlepinski]

Didn't like the foot pedal?
Never used their plug-ins for recording... huh?

[RIFF]

I liked part DUH best.

You really cant use this as much of an example or practice session for your mixing, because of the drums. They were just done for a little drum jam fun & HEAVILY compressed. Theyre a big open, maybe vintagy type sound, but they arent really a match for the guitar sound youve got. Theyd match more of a casual marshall crunch or something.

If the drums werent there... While micing bass adds earth, & im a big proponent of this, you cant always get a GREAT bass sound mic'd unless youve got the right gear (which I dont have). Sometimes I mic it for earth but split the signal, getting the line out direct to another track. Then you can mix some direct signal with the mic'd for a little depth and clarity.


I dont like much processing on the guitars, I go straight into the amp, mic a speaker, & post processing consists of the Ignite PTEQ 1A, NOT the X. I generally attenuate lows at 30hz 2-5 notches, attenuate highs if needed, & boost mids @ 4,5 or 6k, a few notches. I was using a reapers stock eq, but it wasnt sounding as natural as this. No compression etc.


Also on a side note, a little accidental experience Ill share... I use EZD2, & was using the made of metal set. It sounded good, but I was eqing this & compressing that, etc.
Then on another song I used the same set, but for quick writing I did no processing. Just adjusted the ezd internal mixer a bit & wrote the song. I later went in & was listening to that mix compared to other songs Id done & realized the songs I processed the drums on, sounded weak & thin, the unfinished one, big, punchy & with depth. I now do a drum master with perhaps minor Eq, maybe some limiting, and only if needed, a little reverb on the snare.

Thanks man! Appreciate the advice, makes me feel a little better! I'll quit beating on this and let it go as is and start on some of my own stuff and let you guys hash on that! .

My bass amp has a DI line out, I'll try mixing them next time, thanks!

One thing I just noticed, going back and listening to other's takes, mine is 1/2 the volume of others', and my master is kissing the red! I know a lot is lost in transfer to soundcloud.. but those guys must be using something to boost volume... do you know what?

When you do 2 bass tracks like that, Youve usually gotta move one of the tracks a few milliseconds one way or another, &/or reverse phase.

About the levels, what DAW do you use?

[MyNexRed2]

When you do 2 bass tracks like that, Youve usually gotta move one of the tracks a few milliseconds one way or another, &/or reverse phase.

About the levels, what DAW do you use?

I use Ableton live 9. I can adjust milliseconds in the track, and I think I saw a way to reverse phase in the audio effects. I'll give it a try next time! Thanks man!

BBE Sonic Suite... Sonic Maximizer, Harmonic Maximizer and Loudness Maximizer. It will be the best $149 you ever spent. (except for that BJ back in '02)
Use it on tracks and on the mix. BAM!

http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic- ... sweet.aspx

Thanks man! Definitely have to check it out.. I like the sonic maximizer, I just use a little sometimes with my guitar fx.. not too much. A little goes a long way!

I couldn't leave it alone, I learned something.. to group things and turn them to a wav file, then open a new set, and put the group in 1 track. I grouped just drums, then bass, then rhythm guitars then solos.. so I reduced my tracks and was able to manipulate them a little easier.. still sounds like shit, too boomy, but fuggit.. I learned a lot and it was fun... mostly.. Thanks for all of the suggestions!

https://soundcloud.com/user-437728583/no-life-5/s-gLdx0

[MyNexRed2]

There's limiter techniques for simple mastering but there is mastering software for bringing up the final volume to commercial levels.

I used a limiter this last time, but I think the one that comes with ableton must be weak.. It clips real easy! Thanks for the suggestion! I saw a few online... credit card's about to get pissed! Which one would you suggest?

[MyNexRed2]

I pumped the shit out of my mix and used waaay too much compression and limiting and broke all the don't do rules so don't use mine as a reference

SO IT'S YOUR FAULT!! .... No biggie, It was a learning experience and I had fun doin' it! Thanks!

[RIFF]

Im not sure what Ableton comes with, but I use Event Horizon clipper by Stillwell or JS (comes with Reaper). It seems to do alright.

You can download an evaluation version here:
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/event-horizon/

[VTM]

Riff mentioned Ignite.....I use their free plugin for bass then add a plugin compressor after it using the bass preset. I love Ignite's bass plugin and IR loader. I shoot 'em a donation once in a while to show my appreciation FWIW.

I can't believe I found another Ableton user! I'm using the lite version that came with my focusrite. I also use the vladg mastering chain. Check it out!

https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/downloads/

[Cirrus]

Sorry to butt-in / hijack...

Interesting about recording at low levels - should tracks be recorded that low (-20db) all the time?

Idea is that in analog world you shoot for around 0dBu average. Gear has headroom so short loud bits like snare/ kick hits etc can be louder without distorting.

In the digital world 0dBfs in the absolute max signal level - if you shoot for that, you clip the short loud bits. So 0dBu in the real world = usually -18dBfs in the computer. That leaves headroom for the loud bits. So a steady sound like a distorted guitar, aim for -18db. A more dynamic sound like a drum, the peak can be higher, maybe up to -12dB or so, but the body of the sound will still be -18db. Aim for that and you're off to a good start. Louder, and you'll stress your interface converters and any analog modelled plugins you run.

[MyNexRed2]

Sorry to butt-in / hijack...

Interesting about recording at low levels - should tracks be recorded that low (-20db) all the time?

Idea is that in analog world you shoot for around 0dBu average. Gear has headroom so short loud bits like snare/ kick hits etc can be louder without distorting.

In the digital world 0dBfs in the absolute max signal level - if you shoot for that, you clip the short loud bits. So 0dBu in the real world = usually -18dBfs in the computer. That leaves headroom for the loud bits. So a steady sound like a distorted guitar, aim for -18db. A more dynamic sound like a drum, the peak can be higher, maybe up to -12dB or so, but the body of the sound will still be -18db. Aim for that and you're off to a good start. Louder, and you'll stress your interface converters and any analog modelled plugins you run.

Thanks for the info!.. now I know!

[MyNexRed2]

Im not sure what Ableton comes with, but I use Event Horizon clipper by Stillwell or JS (comes with Reaper). It seems to do alright.

You can download an evaluation version here:
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/event-horizon/

Thanks man! I will give this a try.. I don't think it can make it any worse..

Riff mentioned Ignite.....I use their free plugin for bass then add a plugin compressor after it using the bass preset. I love Ignite's bass plugin and IR loader. I shoot 'em a donation once in a while to show my appreciation FWIW.

I can't believe I found another Ableton user! I'm using the lite version that came with my focusrite. I also use the vladg mastering chain. Check it out!

https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/downloads/

Yeah man, Ableton 8 lite came with my focusrite too.. I just finally installed the 9 regular upgrade.. huge learning curve (for me anyway) I'll check out the master chain and compare, thanks man!

[Tortuga]

Sorry to butt-in / hijack...

Interesting about recording at low levels - should tracks be recorded that low (-20db) all the time?

Idea is that in analog world you shoot for around 0dBu average. Gear has headroom so short loud bits like snare/ kick hits etc can be louder without distorting.

In the digital world 0dBfs in the absolute max signal level - if you shoot for that, you clip the short loud bits. So 0dBu in the real world = usually -18dBfs in the computer. That leaves headroom for the loud bits. So a steady sound like a distorted guitar, aim for -18db. A more dynamic sound like a drum, the peak can be higher, maybe up to -12dB or so, but the body of the sound will still be -18db. Aim for that and you're off to a good start. Louder, and you'll stress your interface converters and any analog modelled plugins you run.

Thanks for the info!.. now I know!

+1 good shit right here! Thanks Cirrus

[VTM]

Im not sure what Ableton comes with, but I use Event Horizon clipper by Stillwell or JS (comes with Reaper). It seems to do alright.

You can download an evaluation version here:
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/event-horizon/

Thanks man! I will give this a try.. I don't think it can make it any worse..

Riff mentioned Ignite.....I use their free plugin for bass then add a plugin compressor after it using the bass preset. I love Ignite's bass plugin and IR loader. I shoot 'em a donation once in a while to show my appreciation FWIW.

I can't believe I found another Ableton user! I'm using the lite version that came with my focusrite. I also use the vladg mastering chain. Check it out!

https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/downloads/

Yeah man, Ableton 8 lite came with my focusrite too.. I just finally installed the 9 regular upgrade.. huge learning curve (for me anyway) I'll check out the master chain and compare, thanks man!

Other than more tracks, what are some of the main benefits of going with the 9 regular upgrade?