Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much better?

ledvedder · Post by **ledvedder** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:23 am

What's the deal with NOS preamp tubes and the Winged C power tubes? Are they really that much better? I'm reading a lot of stuff over at the Marshall amp forum, and a lot of people swear by these tubes. I've gone through a lot of CP tubes in my DSL 50 (Tungsol, chinese, JJ, Ruby, etc.).

100 watt · Post by **100 watt** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:30 am

depends on your ears & depends on the amp.

Cirrus · Post by **Cirrus** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:39 am

Yeah, it really does depend. Different tubes do sound different, as to whether they're better that's down to so many other variables it's impossible to say which is "better". NOS tends to last a bit longer, but preamp tubes can last for years anyway. I like having a little selection of different tubes and when I decide I'm going to start gigging an amp I'll have a session where I just try a few different combinations and see what works best. Sometimes I can't tell the difference, sometimes it's obvious.

100 watt · Post by **100 watt** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:41 am

and you may like pre's that others loathe.

I hear alot of hate for the Tung Sol RI's.

They're my fave CP tube

EndTime · Post by **EndTime** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:02 am

What they all said.. I used Winged C for awhile and they are good, but its prolly cause they biased up pretty good with my combo which is fixed bias.. Being bored recently I bought some JJ's that absolutely crushed.. They ended up running fairly hot at 44ma(compared to 30ma of the C's), but man the amp kills.. Is that a knock on Winged C or just the difference of a hot bias in that amp? We'll never know! haha

GuitarBilly · Post by **GuitarBilly** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:10 am

The only NOS tube I use with my DSL is a JAN Phillips 12AT7 in the PI. That's a tube I really recommend for the DSL, it makes a huge difference. In the other positions I just have a combination of EHX and Ruby's and they're fine. I don't recall what the power tubes are at the moment, but they're not that big of a deal IMHO.

ledvedder · Post by **ledvedder** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:11 am

guitarbilly74 wrote:The only NOS tube I use with my DSL is a JAN Phillips 12AT7 in the PI. That's a tube I really recommend for the DSL, it makes a huge difference. In the other positions I just have a combination of EHX and Ruby's and they're fine. I don't recall what the power tubes are at the moment, but they're not that big of a deal IMHO.

What did that tube do in the PI?

Cirrus · Post by **Cirrus** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:17 am

ledvedder wrote:
guitarbilly74 wrote:What did that tube do in the PI?

It mainly inverted the phase.

TurboPablo · Post by **TurboPablo** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:26 am

ledvedder wrote:
guitarbilly74 wrote:The only NOS tube I use with my DSL is a JAN Phillips 12AT7 in the PI. That's a tube I really recommend for the DSL, it makes a huge difference. In the other positions I just have a combination of EHX and Ruby's and they're fine. I don't recall what the power tubes are at the moment, but they're not that big of a deal IMHO.

What did that tube do in the PI?

It's kind of hard to describe. Mainly, it just tames the amp a bit. I have a 12AT7 in the PI of my JCM800 2204 and my new DSL40C. It just sort of rounds the sound out some. Reduces the fizz factor.

For the record, along with the 12AT7, I just swapped out the stockers for a set of late '80s' or early '90s Penta Lab 12AX7s'. Definitely like the amp so much more now. But, it did sound great stock. I'm just incapable of leaving anything as is.

100 watt · Post by **100 watt** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:29 am

I like a AT7 in a MV amp. NMV amps, I like an AX7 in NMV amps.

I like a cleaner PI tuve in a MV amp to tame fizz & make them take pedals a little better. Helps them not to sound as "squishy" as well.

thefyn · Post by **thefyn** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:30 am

It changes it a little, but the big notice is fresh tubes and CORRECTLY biased amp. That can be night and day if your setup has drifted/power tubes at the lower end of life.

Ostinato Rubato · Post by **Ostinato Rubato** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:49 pm

It's the kind of difference that only your ears can decide the value of.

VTM · Post by **VTM** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:14 pm

EndTime wrote:Being bored recently I bought some JJ's that absolutely crushed..

I bought a set of those a few years back. The plastic base on the tube and the pins were smaller than on any other 6L6 tube I have ever seen. That being the case, they did not work well with the well worn tube sockets on my VTM and Ultra 60. I take it your JJs were not that way? Just wondering, because they did sound killer and I was thinking about buying a couple more, but not if they still have the smaller pins/base.

Ostinato Rubato · Post by **Ostinato Rubato** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:49 pm

Anderton wrote:
EndTime wrote:Being bored recently I bought some JJ's that absolutely crushed..

I bought a set of those a few years back. The plastic base on the tube and the pins were smaller than on any other 6L6 tube I have ever seen. That being the case, they did not work well with the well worn tube sockets on my VTM and Ultra 60. I take it your JJs were not that way? Just wondering, because they did sound killer and I was thinking about buying a couple more, but not if they still have the smaller pins/base.

I think that coating a little solder around the pins ought to fix that issue, yes?

VTM · Post by **VTM** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:27 pm

Mike LX-R wrote:I think that coating a little solder around the pins ought to fix that issue, yes?

I'd rather buy tubes that fit. That's what I'm paying for.

gb74 · Post by **gb74** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:33 pm

ledvedder wrote:
guitarbilly74 wrote:The only NOS tube I use with my DSL is a JAN Phillips 12AT7 in the PI. That's a tube I really recommend for the DSL, it makes a huge difference. In the other positions I just have a combination of EHX and Ruby's and they're fine. I don't recall what the power tubes are at the moment, but they're not that big of a deal IMHO.

What did that tube do in the PI?

It adds clarity to the tone. You have the same amount of gain, but more open and less compressed/congested.

Ostinato Rubato · Post by **Ostinato Rubato** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:35 pm

Anderton wrote:
Mike LX-R wrote:I think that coating a little solder around the pins ought to fix that issue, yes?

I'd rather buy tubes that fit. That's what I'm paying for.

yeah but you're Anderton, so what do you know :cop:

(i agree with you though..)

VTM · Post by **VTM** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Mike LX-R wrote:yeah but you're Anderton, so what do you know

House Of A Thousand Andertons

:ween:

2tallmusic · Post by **2tallmusic** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:34 pm

+1 for "it depends"

In older amps with usually simpler circuits the influence of the preamp tube is much more present then in modern amp design.

In the circuit of my Ceriatone Yeti I hardly notice a difference. The amp gets muddy and more compressed e.g. with long plates, but I can not state that my NOS tubes sound better then the stock JJs. In my 18 Watter instead, a set of NOS Sylvanias is already changing the charakter of the amp.

Regarding power tubes - there was a nice power tube comparison done by Ola:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjPE7oTwVug[/video]

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Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much better?

Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much better?

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Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet

Re: Are NOS preamp tubes and Winged C's really that much bet