Groove Tubes Gone Bad?

[Tubeman123]

Hi everyone... My tone doesn't sound right but I hear no major fault such as an extremely thin/tinty sound. It just sounds possibly a little less warm and sustain. 1 Side of each tube has a large grey marking, which I'm told is normal. They shine bright orange. They do have a lot of rust on the bottom of the tubes. Would this effect the tone?

Thank you!

[Ostinato Rubato]

Firstly, welcome.

Secondly, where you from?

Thirdly, is this a new problem?

Fourthly, yes tubes with rusted pins can affect your tone. Also, in my opinion Groove Tubes are awful. Change them for something else but before you do...

Fifthly, what amp are you playing through bro?

[Tubeman123]

I'm from NY playing through a Fender Twin reverb reissue and I like the Groove Tube GEs (not the Russian ones). The rust is actually not on the pins but on the bottom of the inside of the tubes.

An amp tech put in 6l6 Russian made with a high power rating without telling me and I didn't know why my tone sucked IMO so I called him up and he told me. I have power rating 3 made in China. I prefer a very warm, smooth tone and I only have the amp up at 2 volume at the moment so the early distortion is probably just enough.

Also, my tubes don't have gold series labeled on them. Can I replace them with gold series and a power rating of 1 or 2 (as I can't choose) without rebiasing the amp?

Thanks!

[Tubeman123]

I'm from NY playing through a Fender Twin reverb reissue and I like the Groove Tube GEs (not the Russian ones). The rust is actually not on the pins but on the bottom of the inside of the tubes.

An amp tech put in 6l6 Russian made with a high power rating without telling me and I didn't know why my tone sucked IMO so I called him up and he told me. I have power rating 3 made in China. I prefer a very warm, smooth tone and I only have the amp up at 2 volume at the moment so the early distortion is probably just enough.

Also, my tubes don't have gold series labeled on them. Can I replace them with gold series and a power rating of 1 or 2 (as I can't choose) without rebiasing the amp?

Thanks!

[Tubeman123]

Also, if I replace the 12ax7Rs with 12ax7Cs to get a warmer tone.... Will I need my amp rebiased (and does warmer in this case mean more basey/muddy?)

Thanks!

[Ostinato Rubato]

Also, if I replace the 12ax7Rs with 12ax7Cs to get a warmer tone.... Will I need my amp rebiased (and does warmer in this case mean more basey/muddy?)

Thanks!

You only need to rebias when you change power tubes to a new set that isn't rated the same. You can change preamp tubes all day long and not have to worry about biasing. And yeah dude, if there's rust INSIDE (:eek:) then definitely swap it out. In fact I'd be nervous to run a rusty tube... but maybe it's not a big deal. I've never heard of this or heard it recommendable to play a tube that's rusted inside, and it almost certainly indicates to me (based on logic) that the vacuum environment of the tube has been compromised.

For what it's worth, I own a '66 Fender Pro Reverb, essentially a half powered Twin. Ruby tubes and JJ's have sounded wonderful in that amp. Truly wonderful.

What kind of pedals do you run out front? Just curious. And again, welcome to the board

[Ostinato Rubato]

I'm from NY playing through a Fender Twin reverb reissue and I like the Groove Tube GEs (not the Russian ones). The rust is actually not on the pins but on the bottom of the inside of the tubes.

An amp tech put in 6l6 Russian made with a high power rating without telling me and I didn't know why my tone sucked IMO so I called him up and he told me. I have power rating 3 made in China. I prefer a very warm, smooth tone and I only have the amp up at 2 volume at the moment so the early distortion is probably just enough.

Also, my tubes don't have gold series labeled on them. Can I replace them with gold series and a power rating of 1 or 2 (as I can't choose) without rebiasing the amp?

Thanks!

I'm confused about power ratings on the power tubes. The way you're describing ratings of 1, 2, and 3 is something I've never heard of before. In my experience most 6L6's are equivalent in terms of power. Certain brands might be able to handle slightly different variations of plate volts, but any properly biased 6L6 is as powerful as the next.

Again, Ruby or JJ power tubes (as well as preamp tubes) just sound wonderful in vintage Fender circuits.

Do you know how to bias your amp?

[Tubeman123]

Thanks... The groove tube power rating are based on how quickly the tubes break up and distort..lower distorting more quickly.

Which 6l6 tubes give a warmer tone, the groove tubes with the low power rating (they are warmer than the higher power rating ones) or the ruby tubes? And if I put ruby tubes in then i would need to rebias my amp (I'd have to go to a tech)?

How about the 12ax7s?

[jamminjohn]

welcome

[Ostinato Rubato]

Thanks... The groove tube power rating are based on how quickly the tubes break up and distort..lower distorting more quickly.

Which 6l6 tubes give a warmer tone, the groove tubes with the low power rating (they are warmer than the higher power rating ones) or the ruby tubes? And if I put ruby tubes in then i would need to rebias my amp (I'd have to go to a tech)?

How about the 12ax7s?

Biasing an amp is really easy. We can teach you how. Yes you would most likely have to rebias. And for sure, the Ruby's are warmer in my experience. My Pro Reverb had Groove Tubes and when I switched to Ruby's the tone was soooo much warmer, and sweeter. DO IT!

For biasing you will need these:

multimeter
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-multimeter-98025.html

...and a bias probe. Get the $25 one on the following page, which you hook up to the multimeter above.

https://www.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=108&sub_category_id=109


There are videos on the Eurotubes website about how to bias, as well as plenty videos that I'm sure you can find on Youtube. It's really easy and you'll never have to pay your tech again to do it. It's all pretty straight forward.

Come back here for questions if you need help. We're always willing to advise.

EDIT: Also, you don't need to rebias when you change preamp tubes. And JJ's or Ruby's will be good in a vintage Fender circuit for warmth.

[GuitarBilly]

Moving this to the main forum so it gets more traction, it is a good question.

My advice would be to contact a reputable tube dealer like Laura at ValveQueen to get you some tubes that break up similar to a "3" rating at Groove Tubes. Groove Tubes is not a manufacturer, they just match, rate then re-label tubes of different brands. A good tube vendor can do the same for you. Also, if you are looking for warmer tubes, JJs are a good option.

[Twang]

Groove tube =Fender I think fender bought them out along time ago.

[~Abstract~]

Did he say he's got "rust" on the INSIDE of his tubes?


Does that seem odd to anyone else?

[Ostinato Rubato]

yup. that's what I said in one of my posts. logic would indicate that it's no longer a vacuum tube if there's rust inside.