Government Shut Down=USA Credit Rating Drop?!?!?

[madryan]

Well if anything what the shutdown has taught us is that whenever one does happen the country automaticaly goes into the verge of default.

When this happens under these circumstances of extreme increase in debt+entitlements we get an uncertainty in the international market in our ability to pay of our debt and handle these entitlements like healthcare and Social Security.

We cannot afford to be on the verge of automatic default, the world will not tolerate it and the markets will force us to correct ourselves otherwise.

You just wait and see. If the markets say we will go down, then by god we will go down and at that point there is absolutely no flexing of political power by any two parties or even by the president that could even help us forget or even God almighty Mr.Bernanke at the Federal Reserve with all his printing presses at this point even he with all his strenght will not be able to stop the flood when the levee breaks for the dollar.

If the US drops one more credit rating we are in for 15-25 years pure economic pain and missery, there will be nothing to stop a complete failure in our current banking system.

Actually, the President could completely ignore the debt limit. See, it's kind of a murky thing. Most countries have gotten rid of their debt limits for this very reason. The Congress charges the executive branch to spend the money, but then they tighten up the purse strings and won't raise the debt limit and allow that to happen.

Make no mistake, the money has been spent, or at least appropriated. So the president could say, "you guys already charged the executive branch with spending this money so I'm going to do it" and completely ignore the debt limit. Just blow right through it. This would nullify it and remove it as a political football in the future. It'd also make the House Republicans look like even bigger idiots (I know, hardly possible right?)

The hilarious thing is people get their panties in a twist over the debt at all. It's almost completely meaningless. From an economic standpoint it's almost an arbitrary number. Most of it's owed to Social Security, not Foreign Creditors. Additionally, people say dumb shit like "If China ever decides to call the loans due we're hosed" which is just hilarious. They're T-Bills. They mature at a certain, per-ordained time. If China or whomever is holding a T-Bill decides to cash it in they're going to get a fraction of the face value back. Nobody's that stupid.

The utter stupidity of people in this country makes me want to cry at times.

I've had literally hundreds of people piss and moan to me about the debt but not one can articulate to me why it's a big deal. Not ONE! lol... I get all these nebulous BS answers which are mostly half truths mixed with utter crap.

[madryan]

It doesent matter what your political beliefs are or if china wants to step up to plate or not, maybe they already hedging against us to make a move and fill in a vacume that will be left in our place? Whatever power you think we flex as a country or that the president holds, it dosent matter madryan.

See whatever it is, politically it dosent matter, the motives or selfish agenda's that any individual or country have dont matter at this point ,simply put if the finacncial market decide we are going down then we are going down because it say's so and there is nothing that can be done.

The market is indiscriment like an alligator or a shark it dosent care for political interest or agenda's it just does what needs to be done. And for this reason it is a BIG DEAL because the financial market is indiscriminate anything can happen.

We didnt default last time either, this isnt about that. This is about condition's that are in play and motion that set up the U.S. to drop another credit rating.

And it looks like if these ass hat republicans have their way it just might lead to this country walking into the path of economic suicide.

You're talking about our credit rating?

That doesn't matter at all compared to what would happen if we actually default. As in, Social Security, Veterans Bene's, Medicare payments, etc don't go out. The entire US economy would shit the bed over that, and the world economy would follow. Who gives a shit about an arbitrary credit rating from a bunch of asshats who rated Mortgage backed securities "A" grade investment fodder?

I've actually been on other boards and heard people talk like this would be a good thing. Like the only way to fix the government in their eyes is to burn the whole fucking thing down and start over. Unfreakinbelievable.

[madryan]

Im afraid a credit rating drop would be the very devastating despite whatever manuevers you think we could pull to dodge the economic mayhem that follows.

Right now for example 3 Year Treasuries give a .7 yield. But if our credit rating went down simply put it would bring up the yield to maybe 1.3 to 2 percent.

10 Year Treasuries could go from 2.7 to 4 or even 5 pecent yield or imagine 6.5 or 7 percent.

Borrowing money at those rates would be unsustainable.

If our credit rating goes down then the rate at wich we borrow money will inevitably go up and that is a BIG FUCKING DEAL man. That coupled with entitlements and the growing debt will be a death blow to our banking system

The ferocius and indiscriminate power of the financial markets at that rate will shred our currency and economy to pieces.

The banking system is fleecing everyone anyway. Fuckem. I pay about 28x the interest on my student loans they pay on what they borrow from the FED.

Everything you're talking about would be academic at that point because our economy will crater within a week of the asshats in DC letting us default. I'm talking great depression style crater. By the time we get downchecked people will be shooting each other over cans of spam and eating the family dog.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

I doubt the civil unrest would get that gnarly.

They'd probably pass some bill which equates to strong arming all the farms into accepting bammy dollars for food to the masses.

[madryan]

I doubt the civil unrest would get that gnarly.

They'd probably pass some bill which equates to strong arming all the farms into accepting bammy dollars for food to the masses.

Meh... You shut down stuff for a week and LA, SF, even where I'm at doesn't have a scrap of food left anywhere.

Yeah, it'd get bad really quick. A hiccup that destabilized stuff for even a few weeks could see our cities tear themselves apart. Shit, if Debit cards quit working it'd happen in a week.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

I'm just saying, Obama Inc. won't let their biggest voter base fail like that. Just no chance.

This isn't even a political statement, but they would literally take something from somewhere to feed that dragon. No doubt.

[madryan]

I'm just saying, Obama Inc. won't let their biggest voter base fail like that. Just no chance.

This isn't even a political statement, but they would literally take something from somewhere to feed that dragon. No doubt.

IMO it'd be a logistics problem like Katrina.

Katrina was such a mess because the roads and everything resembling an airstrip were pulverized. People who used it as a political football pissed me off because you don't simply wish an international airport into existence with a port or two and some fuel depots with a multi-lane freeway to sweeten the bargain.

If something like Debit cards going down, or the economy tanking hard enough happened it wouldn't take long before our freeway system looked like the set of the Walking Dead. People would try and get out and run out of gas and their cars would quickly become part of the giant roadblock. Since we abandoned railways at the behest of the oil companies all those years ago as a serious method for moving goods around, this would be a serious problem for urban areas.

You think truckers carry enough cash around to fill up their rigs? Hell no.

I've been actually thinking about this because if a big earthquake hit us up here it'd drop most of these bridges on I-5 and in a week or two people in my valley would be eating their pets. I'm formulating a plan for getting to my cabin that doesn't involve the freeway in and out of here.