are we defunding education to fund entitlements?

[sleewell]

my friend just got hired for his first full time teaching job, it is literally insane how little money they make. my brother teaches in chicago and they basically took away their contract and made them all agree to pay cuts. my mom recently retired from teaching and being a guidance counselor for 40 years, 2 years into retirement they up and lower the amount of her monthly pension that she had payed into her entire life. these are the people responsible for teaching our kids.

meanwhile ssi disability and food stamp applications and fraud are at an all time high. you have scumbag lawyers on tv all day long saying you deserve free money and many are in cohoots with the judges responsible for awarding it all. i know there are many who are truly in need and actually need these programs but i also know many people work the system.


what the fuck are we doing??? i am not a smart man by any means but I have been employed since i was 15 without ever collecting any govt cheese and it just seems obvious that its more important to teach someone to fish than to just give them a free meal.

[Yarbicus]

meanwhile ssi disability and food stamp applications and fraud are at an all time high.

Prove these statements, please.

[sleewell]

http://www.cato.org/blog/60-minutes-disability-investigation

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/326985-senate-report-finds-disability-benefits-fraud

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/23/Two-Men-Plead-Guilty-To-2-Million-Food-Stamp-Fraud

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/16/cbo-food-stamp-participation-rate-to-peak-in-2013/

[ovid9]

meanwhile ssi disability and food stamp applications and fraud are at an all time high.

Prove these statements, please.

Those are true. Fraud might be as well simply as a natural effect of more people applying but that doesn't necessarily mean that the amount of fraud is out of line with what one would naturally expect and I am not sure fraud is up, just pointing out it could be.

To the main topic of education: Many people in positions of power in education have bought into the idea of "corporatizing" education. Making it more like a business. Well, fine, however, every kid isn't the same. Every family isn't the same. You cannot expect cookie cutter results. More testing does not provide better education.

Treating teachers like commodities does little to encourage qualified people to come into the field and worse, does not keep them in the field. Why are you going to stay in a job where you're constantly criticized, you have little control over outcomes and the pay sucks?

The farce that charter schools are proving to be is only reinforcing this model is failed, but money is being made (not by teachers) and by privatizing people out of the teachers unions it does lead to less long term expenses. Of course, we're also horribly shortchanging kids, predominately minority kids, in the process.

But hey, its all the teacher's fault that the 30+ kids in their class from god knows what family situations aren't hitting arbitrary marks on meaningless tests. Obviously.

Seeing links from cato and breitbart, be aware of your sources. Not saying they are wrong (well breitbart probably is ) but they have a definite bias to them.

[sleewell]

couldn't agree more Paul, very well said. i am firm believer in the phrase 'you get what you pay for' and right now its hard to attract good people to teaching with how they are treating people.

Yarb, ssi disability is up 20% and the # of people on food stamps is higher than its ever been. there is a huge investigation recently completed revealing massive amounts of fraud in ssi. i think its safe to say fraud is at all time high simply bc more people are on it and are applying for it than ever before.

[Pepi]

How else are they going to fund iPADs for everyone

[ovid9]

couldn't agree more Paul, very well said. i am firm believer in the phrase 'you get what you pay for' and right now its hard to attract good people to teaching with how they are treating people.

Yarb, ssi disability is up 20% and the # of people on food stamps is higher than its ever been. there is a huge investigation recently completed revealing massive amounts of fraud in ssi. i think its safe to say fraud is at all time high simply bc more people are on it and are applying for it than ever before.

Lots of people are going on SSI because they're older (50s/60s) lost their job, unemployment benefits have run out, cannot find another job (no one is hiring older workers) but can't retire and get social security yet. Lots of bipolar, depression and other issues (which I am not saying aren't legit in many cases) but people could deal before because they had a job, insurance, money, etc.

Its a messed up situation all the way around really, not just in the education world, but in the workforce as a whole.

How else are they going to fund iPADs for everyone

Fuck LA and fuck their idiocy. Seriously, such a dumbass fucking move it pisses me off. If you're going to get tablets for every kid (and I ask "why?") you can do it much cheaper than iPads, even if Apple is giving you a massive discount. But, importantly, I still ask, "Why?" and I haven't really heard a good answer to it.

[madryan]

Don't forget that schools are partially funded through property taxes. This ensures that poor and minorities get fucked and the folks in affluent neighborhoods get the best of everything.

I'll echo what others have said about sources. Breitbart makes Fox News look rational and Cato isn't a whole lot better.

[sleewell]

isnt others plural? who besides Ovid commented on the sources?

say what you want, i googled ssi and food stamp fraud and quickly linked 4 that seemed applicable but there are so many others readily available. the reason for the thread was from a story on 60 minutes which is very liberal. overall i just see a trend of cutting back on education spending while handouts increasing. the job market is most likely to blame but it does not bode well for our kids.

[madryan]

isnt others plural? who besides Ovid commented on the sources?

say what you want, i googled ssi and food stamp fraud and quickly linked 4 that seemed applicable but there are so many others readily available. the reason for the thread was from a story on 60 minutes which is very liberal. overall i just see a trend of cutting back on education spending while handouts increasing. the job market is most likely to blame but it does not bode well for our kids.

Food Stamps (SNAP) has a very low rate of fraud. The program actually generates money because of Keynesian Multiplier effects. That is, for every dollar we "Spend" on SNAP, we get about $1.70 back because as it trickles up through the economy it gets multiplied.

SNAP is one of the most efficient government programs actually.

SSI is really being clamped down on now. I know because we've been talking to an attorney about getting my brother on it. He's basically crazy and needs much more care than we can give him, and can't support himself. The attorney specializes in this and said they've really clamped down on who they're letting on over the last few years. It's a real uphill battle. If we don't get my brother into something like that he'll end up like my Dad did, basically homeless and ultimately dead at a very young age.

Hey, I get it. My stepdad and sis are both teachers. My sister makes shit and has a Masters degree. She loves it, doesn't do it for the money, but she'd love to have more resources to be able to help her kids.

[DoubleBarrel]

Food Stamps (SNAP) has a very low rate of fraud. .

Are you really that dumb or just don't read

http://www.macon.com/2013/10/09/2710083/store-employee-sentenced-to-probation.html

http://www.fbi.gov/baltimore/press-releases/2013/nine-retailers-arrested-on-food-stamp-fraud-charges

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/09/19/5748481/california-faulted-for-food-stamp.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/08/food-stamp-fraud-increasingly-sophisticated-despite-reports-drop-in-cases/


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McW90W_9Iws[/video]

[Noah]

what the fuck are we doing??? i am not a smart man by any means but I have been employed since i was 15 without ever collecting any govt cheese and it just seems obvious that its more important to teach someone to fish than to just give them a free meal.

More generational theft. Baby boomers aren't interested in schools anymore now that their kids have graduated. They're taking their winnings and moving to low tax states or voting down school budgets if they bother sticking around.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

Schools need to figure it out.

The 1940's and 1950's spit out astronauts, inventors and all kinds of very intelligent people. They did this with textbooks, pencils and a slide ruler.

Now we have kids who can barely read a magazine while shitting and they need iPads?

lol. Schools got bloated with bullshit curriculum that increased costs due to an abundance of supplies like smocks for art class, 'journals' for your feelings, etc.

Fuck that, here's an abbicus and a book about mars. Get to work putas.

[ovid9]

Schools need to figure it out.

The 1940's and 1950's spit out astronauts, inventors and all kinds of very intelligent people. They did this with textbooks, pencils and a slide ruler.

Now we have kids who can barely read a magazine while shitting and they need iPads?

lol. Schools got bloated with bullshit curriculum that increased costs due to an abundance of supplies like smocks for art class, 'journals' for your feelings, etc.

Fuck that, here's an abbicus and a book about mars. Get to work putas.

I love you, you right wing troll.

[primeholy]

Schools need to figure it out.

The 1940's and 1950's spit out astronauts, inventors and all kinds of very intelligent people. They did this with textbooks, pencils and a slide ruler.

Now we have kids who can barely read a magazine while shitting and they need iPads?

lol. Schools got bloated with bullshit curriculum that increased costs due to an abundance of supplies like smocks for art class, 'journals' for your feelings, etc.

Fuck that, here's an abbicus and a book about mars. Get to work putas.

I love you, you right wing troll.

^^^^^

[madryan]

Food Stamps (SNAP) has a very low rate of fraud. .

Are you really that dumb or just don't read

http://www.macon.com/2013/10/09/2710083/store-employee-sentenced-to-probation.html

http://www.fbi.gov/baltimore/press-releases/2013/nine-retailers-arrested-on-food-stamp-fraud-charges

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/09/19/5748481/california-faulted-for-food-stamp.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/08/food-stamp-fraud-increasingly-sophisticated-despite-reports-drop-in-cases/


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McW90W_9Iws[/video]

Wow... Anecdotal evidence which wouldn't even denote a statistical bump.

lol...

You obviously slept through stats class.

[madryan]

Schools need to figure it out.

The 1940's and 1950's spit out astronauts, inventors and all kinds of very intelligent people. They did this with textbooks, pencils and a slide ruler.

Now we have kids who can barely read a magazine while shitting and they need iPads?

lol. Schools got bloated with bullshit curriculum that increased costs due to an abundance of supplies like smocks for art class, 'journals' for your feelings, etc.

Fuck that, here's an abbicus and a book about mars. Get to work putas.

Epic as fuck this is lol...

[frumiousbandersnatch]

Hahaha, we old people vote, you youngsters are too busy getting stoned and playing video games, hahaha, you are our serfs, you work for us forever!!! We will harvest your organs!!! HAHAHAHA!

[Lloyd Blankfein]

Schools need to figure it out.

The 1940's and 1950's spit out astronauts, inventors and all kinds of very intelligent people. They did this with textbooks, pencils and a slide ruler.

Now we have kids who can barely read a magazine while shitting and they need iPads?

lol. Schools got bloated with bullshit curriculum that increased costs due to an abundance of supplies like smocks for art class, 'journals' for your feelings, etc.

Fuck that, here's an abbicus and a book about mars. Get to work putas.

Epic as fuck this is lol...

[Lloyd Blankfein]

Schools need to figure it out.

The 1940's and 1950's spit out astronauts, inventors and all kinds of very intelligent people. They did this with textbooks, pencils and a slide ruler.

Now we have kids who can barely read a magazine while shitting and they need iPads?

lol. Schools got bloated with bullshit curriculum that increased costs due to an abundance of supplies like smocks for art class, 'journals' for your feelings, etc.

Fuck that, here's an abbicus and a book about mars. Get to work putas.

I love you, you right wing troll.

I'm still cracking up.

I'm imagining it being delivered in the same way John wayne delivered that, "what do you mean you can't swim?" scene.

Lol, ah man.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

Lol, here we go:

Start at :40

http://youtu.be/2-6rJ9t5WOE

Whaddya mean you can't read?

Here's an abbicus and a book about mars

SPLASH

[madryan]

In all honesty, I educated myself. I sorta "went" to school but it was a waste of time. By the end of elementary school I had literally read every single book in the non-fiction section of our school library. It took the public school system years to beat that love of learning out of me.

College was awesome for me. Probably why I'm back.

If I had it to do over I'd have my folks just enroll me in the local Community College and skip public schools altogether.

[ComOp]

Jesus wants the poors to suffer, it's in the bible.

[Pepi]

I've got four grandkids and all of them have school iPads and are responsible for them. I asked them what do you do with these? "Nothing" was their response. Oh, also all the teachers got one also

[ovid9]

I've got four grandkids and all of them have school iPads and are responsible for them. I asked them what do you do with these? "Nothing" was their response. Oh, also all the teachers got one also

Yup, some administrator who hasn't taught in years (if they every really taught and weren't a counselor or gym teacher) went to a conference and heard about how awesome iPads are in the classroom. "Digital textbooks" blah blah blah.

No thought was given to how they were going to be used. Probably little training on uses for them (I could be wrong but that's usually how technology rollouts seem to go when handed from the top. "Here's new 'technology'. I expect double digit increases in test scores.)

I'm not saying there isn't a place for things like iPads (or I still think a cheaper tablet) its just like anything else, technology isn't a panacea, its a tool. And if no one knows how to use the tool, or the best ways to use the tool, then that tool isn't much good.

And lloyd,