Government Shut Down=USA Credit Rating Drop?!?!?

[madryan]

This has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.

[madryan]

This has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.

True that.

Shouldnt have to worry about this affecting our credit rating I imagine.

But everytime this shit happens, I think back to the first time it happened and it just brings shudders down my spine.

Having such a thing like our credit rating drop as a result of the gov shut down and their inability to solve the problem, even tough time it has nothing to do with our debt celing makes you think why they would even tempt the fates with such a reckless maneuver.

I cant help but think how stupid these people are with acually thinking this is somehow ok or acceptable. Their should be a real outrage over these morons making such rash decisions.

This is a result of Republican being butthurt. That's it. They've tried every avenue possible to tank the ACA and have been unsuccessful. They sent several poisoned CR's to the floor and were shot down. This is their way of saying, "Well, since you won't willingly give me your teenage daughter to fuck I'm gonna hold a gun to your head and make you" which IMO is the height of insanity. I look forward to the next few election cycles when they get the shit kicked out of them at the ballot box.

See, they used to be able to get away with all sorts of stuff on both sides of the isle, but these days everything you do comes back to haunt you from the depths of cyberspace. It's gonna be a bloodbath.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

The Vatican has the right system, and I think it needs to be written into law in America- with some caveats of course.

This shutdown and debt ceiling issue is serious shit. This isn't like passing a seat belt law. I mean, this is hardcore bullshit we are in.

It should be like electing a pope. Round all these slap dick politicians up and stick them in a room. Chain the doors shut and stamp an irreversible emblem on the chains with a crest that says something to the affect of, "we are fucks, we fucked up, we will now pay for it."

In this room, you are only administered water. No food, consider it a cleanse. No one is to leave the room, no one is to eat, sleep, shower or do anything besides deal with the problem and no one is to be released until it is solved, signed into law and implemented.

No phones, no outside communication and most importantly, no pay.

For every day that goes by with no decision there is to be a 10% pay cut in your retirement, medical and annual pay/withdraw that is permanent. Hell, lets shoot some black smoke out of the chimney, too.

The only one allowed to leave is the president and only due to national security like declaring a war or to respond to an attack on American soil. Otherwise, tough shit.

If this was implemented, I'll bet in 30 minutes we'd have a solution.

[TurboPablo]

According to the news, 83% of the Federal Government is operating like it always has.

17%=Shutdown?

Obviously, they only shutdown the services that are going to hurt people.

[madryan]

According to the news, 83% of the Federal Government is operating like it always has.

17%=Shutdown?

Obviously, they only shutdown the services that are going to hurt people.

A good friend of mine works for the forest service part of the year. He's a full time student in the Business Program here and he spends summers cruising around putting out camp fires or, if they're too big he calls in the crew to put it out. Basically he's an extra pair of eyes so our entire forest doesn't burn down. During the school year he's got a different job that's part time. He's also doing an intership this term which is all shot to hell.

He's pissed.

He did mention that if it was still fire season he'd be cruising around without pay because it's really important that our forests don't burn to the ground.

But he's still pissed. This thing is going to cost him a bunch.

[PurpleTrails]

They asked a former Israeli prime minister on Face the Nation today how they dealt with their version of budget impasse...I think they had similar problems a decade ago or so. He said it was pretty simple. They passed a law that said if they couldn't pass a new budget by the end of the year (I assume he meant budget year here) they would continue to use the former budget on a month-by-month basis for up to 12 months. If a new budget didn't pass after six months had passed they immediately called new elections. They haven't had a problem since. Of course, I can't see anyone in our government ever passing a law that makes sense when it comes to imposing consequences on their (in)actions.

For those hoping that the current congress will feel the pain in the next election, I wouldn't bet on it. Due to intense gerrymandering over the past decade or so something like 90% of the congressional districts out there have close to 0% of changing party representation. This is especially true of the more conservative, tea party leaning districts.

[madryan]

They asked a former Israeli prime minister on Face the Nation today how they dealt with their version of budget impasse...I think they had similar problems a decade ago or so. He said it was pretty simple. They passed a law that said if they couldn't pass a new budget by the end of the year (I assume he meant budget year here) they would continue to use the former budget on a month-by-month basis for up to 12 months. If a new budget didn't pass after six months had passed they immediately called new elections. They haven't had a problem since. Of course, I can't see anyone in our government ever passing a law that makes sense when it comes to imposing consequences on their (in)actions.

For those hoping that the current congress will feel the pain in the next election, I wouldn't bet on it. Due to intense gerrymandering over the past decade or so something like 90% of the congressional districts out there have close to 0% of changing party representation. This is especially true of the more conservative, tea party leaning districts.

Yeah, the gerrymandering thing is a real problem. It's something like 3-4x harder to elect a democrat than it is a republican in most districts. It's crazy.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

Not just republicans, lets not be so blind.

You really think a republican has a chance in Oakland?

[madryan]

Not just republicans, lets not be so blind.

You really think a republican has a chance in Oakland?

There's demographics and there's gerrymandering.

Republicans have a horrible time in west coast urban areas. It's just the way it is. Lots of it corresponds with education. There's two sides actually. Folks in the inner city on the west and east coast tend to be aligned with one or more minority groups and are generally smart enough not to vote against their own best interest. They tend to vote Democrat. Similarly, people with lots of education tend to similarly vote democrat. Since cities are where education and the jobs requiring it are focused cities tend to be Democrat.

In contrast, the sparsely populated states as well as the states with lower levels of education, as well as high numbers of poor white folks tend to vote republican. Similarly, states with high levels of overtly religious people tend to vote republican.

The Gerrymandering thing is a bit different. Because of advanced tools like GIS, politicians have been able to redraw districts to the point that they can exclude areas which vote against them completely. So if you've got an area of registered democrats clustered around a small university in your district, just draw them out of your district. That's the real problem. It's been done on both sides but it's been done much more successfully on the Republican side. One need only look at the last election to see this. Look into the votes cast and the results and you can see it plainly.

[Diocide]

The Vatican has the right system, and I think it needs to be written into law in America- with some caveats of course.

This shutdown and debt ceiling issue is serious shit. This isn't like passing a seat belt law. I mean, this is hardcore bullshit we are in.

It should be like electing a pope. Round all these slap dick politicians up and stick them in a room. Chain the doors shut and stamp an irreversible emblem on the chains with a crest that says something to the affect of, "we are fucks, we fucked up, we will now pay for it."

In this room, you are only administered water. No food, consider it a cleanse. No one is to leave the room, no one is to eat, sleep, shower or do anything besides deal with the problem and no one is to be released until it is solved, signed into law and implemented.

No phones, no outside communication and most importantly, no pay.

For every day that goes by with no decision there is to be a 10% pay cut in your retirement, medical and annual pay/withdraw that is permanent. Hell, lets shoot some black smoke out of the chimney, too.

The only one allowed to leave is the president and only due to national security like declaring a war or to respond to an attack on American soil. Otherwise, tough shit.

If this was implemented, I'll bet in 30 minutes we'd have a solution.

You know, I don't agree on a lot of things with you (we had some good discussions back in the HCAF days) but this is one of those occurrences where I agree 100%.

[Diocide]

According to the news, 83% of the Federal Government is operating like it always has.

17%=Shutdown?

Obviously, they only shutdown the services that are going to hurt people.

Not too mention they already passed a law to backpay everyone who was furloughed. So they not only get a small vacation, but they get payed for it when they get back to work. Sounds HORRIBLE!

[sleewell]

Gotta keep kicking that can down the road

[PurpleTrails]

Not just republicans, lets not be so blind.

You really think a republican has a chance in Oakland?

Actually, California went the other direction last year after the passage of a ballot referendum. As part of an election reform measure aimed at breaking the logjam in Sacramento a bipartisan, independent commission was formed to use census data to form more balanced districts.

In my area, for instance, they combined the mostly democratic folks who live in the south bay area in LA with the mostly republican folks who live up in the Palos Verdes Peninsula. The district is also more geographically uniform, i.e. there aren't little tendrils reaching out to include people who politically look like the bulk of the people in the district.

That new district has the distinct possibility of electing either a dem or a republican, where before you weren't liable to see a change no matter what they did in office.

[~Abstract~]

The Vatican has the right system, and I think it needs to be written into law in America- with some caveats of course.

This shutdown and debt ceiling issue is serious shit. This isn't like passing a seat belt law. I mean, this is hardcore bullshit we are in.

It should be like electing a pope. Round all these slap dick politicians up and stick them in a room. Chain the doors shut and stamp an irreversible emblem on the chains with a crest that says something to the affect of, "we are fucks, we fucked up, we will now pay for it."

In this room, you are only administered water. No food, consider it a cleanse. No one is to leave the room, no one is to eat, sleep, shower or do anything besides deal with the problem and no one is to be released until it is solved, signed into law and implemented.

No phones, no outside communication and most importantly, no pay.

For every day that goes by with no decision there is to be a 10% pay cut in your retirement, medical and annual pay/withdraw that is permanent. Hell, lets shoot some black smoke out of the chimney, too.

The only one allowed to leave is the president and only due to national security like declaring a war or to respond to an attack on American soil. Otherwise, tough shit.

If this was implemented, I'll bet in 30 minutes we'd have a solution.

Totally!

[GAS KING]

What a fuckin' sham...............the politicians say it themselves "....if I ran my finances this way, I'd be broke and in jail......"

SO WHY IS IT OKAY TO CONTINUE RUNNING A GOVERNMENT THIS WAY?

[Dickarms]

So last time this happened no one noticed that our Credit Rating as a country went down from +AA to AA.

Im sorry if you hate Obamacare guys, I hate OBAMACARE!!!

I hate it, hate it hate it!!!!

But Government shutdown is not the way to go about it.

Cant you see its killing our country everytime we shutdown the government.

Shouldnt it be a national embarassment that our government is shutdown?!?!?

Like I said last time this happened our credit rating went down as a country, this isnt like a credit card you forgot to pay the parment on with Wells Fargo or Chase bank, nationally this should be a real big FUCKING DEAL.

Asian markets arent going to like this bullshit we are pulling and the coming month will tell if the Chinese are a nervouse about how we go about dealing with this, especially since last time this happened there was a huge dumping of US treasuries and less buying of them in fear that US treasuries were no longer a safe investment for China.

In short order the credit rating drop is a very loud way of saying to get our shit and house in order.

its both sides. these pleas of "RAHN! STAHP!" are useless. both sides are being pricks. its just as easy to say "hey, your obamacare is well intentioned, but cant you see its ripping this country apart?" etc.

and id rather rethink a questionable idea than run with a bad one.

[Reverse Entropy]

If a member of Congress impedes the body from conducting its business (example, a refusal to testify at an investigation) they may be found In Contempt and jailed by the sergeant-at-arms. A refusal to even vote on a valid Combined Resolution seems like impeding the business of the Congress to conduct financial affairs.

I'd like to see someone in the D.C. jail for 48 hours, to be honest.

I think the ACA is a mess. We all could probably write a better law in under a day if we were seated together. Just the broad points, and toss all the idiotically complex stuff.

BUT THE ACA IS THE LAW. Whether we approve of it entirely or not at all. And I am disgusted, repelled, and quietly furious that a group of "elected representatives" is trying to make a signed law "un-happen" and causing major financial chaos as a result. It's despicable.

It's about time to revoke salary-for-life for Congress, and benefits too.

[Ostinato Rubato]

Fuck the shutdown. Play distortion.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

All these countries gotta do is stop trading in American dollars. Replace it with a gold standard.

These oil rich countries always going for nukes to bring the great satan down, lol.

All you gotta do is make us convert our dollars to a currency that can't be artificially inflated by us and it'd be lights out tomorrow.

Especially on oil. Lol, overnight oil is $500 a barrel, market crashes and gas is $15/gallon

No one goes to work, economy is crushed, massive social unrest unfolds.

Don't even need guns to beat America's ass.

I'm happy to be stuffing our mattress with Swedish kronas in a Swedish account.

Goodnight sweet prince America

[madryan]

All these countries gotta do is stop trading in American dollars. Replace it with a gold standard.

These oil rich countries always going for nukes to bring the great satan down, lol.

All you gotta do is make us convert our dollars to a currency that can't be artificially inflated by us and it'd be lights out tomorrow.

Especially on oil. Lol, overnight oil is $500 a barrel, market crashes and gas is $15/gallon

No one goes to work, economy is crushed, massive social unrest unfolds.

Don't even need guns to beat America's ass.

I'm happy to be stuffing our mattress with Swedish kronas in a Swedish account.

Goodnight sweet prince America

Gold is just as arbitrary as dollars.

It's an essentially useless metal that can be dug out of the ground in great quantities by some countries and not at all by others. Essentially you'd be changing the petro-dollar for another commodity based currency, but at least petroleum is actually the one thing everyone needs. Gold, aside from a few uses in electronics is essentially useless.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

Doesn't matter.

Change the world standard to anything but the dollar and its lights out.

[madryan]

Doesn't matter.

Change the world standard to anything but the dollar and its lights out.

Never happen.

Even in a recession we're still the biggest market for goods in the world. China may catch up soon but it hasn't happened quite yet. Besides, their whole schtick depends on them artificially keeping their currency cheap as hell so they can manufacture the worlds cheap shit and trade it for dollars and euros to buy oil.

If anyone ever decides to sell Oil in anything but dollars we'll have a problem but that's what our Military is for.

[Lloyd Blankfein]

Military for what?

To tell the meanies to stop not using the dollar?

Get into another war over oil that you object so much?

China is already on a path to self implosion. They're health as a whole is going down in a hurry. Don't be surprised if they pull a kamikaze in the 4th quarter.

The only power they have in anything is our purchasing power from them and their ability to play the shell game in their own economy.

All of that is grinding down. Without it (which is where they're headed) they've got no other play but to try and force a shitty hand with all the chips on the table.

[madryan]

Military for what?

To tell the meanies to stop not using the dollar?

Get into another war over oil that you object so much?

China is already on a path to self implosion. They're health as a whole is going down in a hurry. Don't be surprised if they pull a kamikaze in the 4th quarter.

The only power they have in anything is our purchasing power from them and their ability to play the shell game in their own economy.

All of that is grinding down. Without it (which is where they're headed) they've got no other play but to try and force a shitty hand with all the chips on the table.

We've done it numerous times before.

I don't agree but it's why we have it.

[madryan]

This has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.

I hate to be the one to say I told you so, or that I was right in this case

But it looks like my initial analysis was correct no?

As we aproach Oct. 17 the closer we get to the situation I summarized in beginning.

Initially the shutdown had nothing to do with the debt ceiling. If it doesn't end and the Republicans decide to grenade the US economy out of spite not only will it wreck the economy, but it'll wreck the Republican party for the foreseeable future. This thing could bring the whole world kicking and screaming back into 2008 or even worse. If that happened I'd expect to see Cruz and the rest hanging from light poles by the end of the week.

The problem with those guys is they believe their ideology trumps real life. Some economic hack from Heritage or one of those other think tanks is giving them really bad advice.

Either that or a bunch of them are actually Al Qaeda Sleepers.