So, pressure mounting to shut down exposed NSA programs, &

[Casey4s]

Big brother is getting way out of control. Orwell was right even though he was off a few decades, 1984 is right now folks.

[ovid9]

Yeah, I thought that was kinda interesting. "Oh, we have to shut down the consulates and embassies in a bunch of places because of chatter."

Now, I'm not saying there hasn't been chatter, the problem is when you constantly hide your spying on your own people, they tend not to believe you when you say there's a threat.

Seems like there was a story about this when I was a kid...the boy who cried wolf maybe......

[Yarbicus]

Well, after Benghazi, I'm not sure they had any real choice about closing the embassies, etc. Another debacle would have absolutely crippled the administration. But using it as a scare tactic to continue the atrocity that is the USA PATRIOTIC Act? Fack you, Gooby!

[Dickarms]

im not trying to start a flame war. im going ot, but i really dont want to....

raise your hand if you honestly feel like the federal government gives a flying fuck about monitoring your actions? like you wake up every day, peek out the blinds for a few seconds to scan for drones and hide out all day because you truly feel like this is an orwellian society.

[ovid9]

im not trying to start a flame war. im going ot, but i really dont want to....

raise your hand if you honestly feel like the federal government gives a flying fuck about monitoring your actions? like you wake up every day, peek out the blinds for a few seconds to scan for drones and hide out all day because you truly feel like this is an orwellian society.

Dude, they can do it passively, they don't have to do it actively. You don't have to be an alex jones loving idiot to be fairly certain the gov't isn't being upfront about how much of your communications they are observing.

Are they singling you out? Of course not and that's why they say its not "so bad." Well, we aren't tracking Youngblood, or Yarb, or Ovid9, we're just looking for terrorists.

Ok, fine, but I'm fairly certain there are ways to do that without casting a wide net and seeing what shows up.

Some folk say "If you're not doing anything wrong you it shouldn't matter if you're observed." My response is "I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't need to be observed."

So no, I'm certainly not checking for drones and I'm not "worried" the gov't is going to do something awful with my metadata, there's nothing to do with it. Its boring as hell.

Its the mere fact they shouldn't be collecting MY metadata or the millions of innocent Americans they are collecting. And I don't believe they are only collecting the metadata and not the actual content anyway because they've given me no reason to trust them.

For me, its 100% the principle of the situation that innocent people should have their communications snooped on en masse.

[Dickarms]

i agree with a lot of that, but what a lot of people (you seem solid, sir ) dont get is that its not fucking transformers the movie. people think we have all of this crazy tech, and we do to an extent, but it still very largely relies on specific targets.
yes, there are cell "nets" that catch phrases like "senator" and "gun", etc. ive seen them work. yes, intel gathered can be incredibly detailed, ive seen/used/acted upon it.

but not a whole lot has changed in 20 years. people are so scared of drones, etc. all they are doing is replacing aircraft that have been in the air for decades. why so scared of one that carries LESS recon and weapons systems? its still flown by a dude, its still got a mission, that mission is still planned by someone, and that someone still does not give a shit about you talking shit about obama in your underwear.

[ovid9]

but people its not fucking transformers. people think we have all of this crazy tech, and we do to an extent, but it still very largely relies on specific targets.
yes, there are cell "nets" that catch phrases like "senator" and "gun", etc. ive seen them work. yes, intel gathered can be incredibly detailed, ive seen/used/acted upon it.

but not a whole lot has changed in 20 years. people are so scared of drones, etc. all they are doing is replacing aircraft that have been in the air for decades. why so scared of one that carries LESS recon and weapons systems? its still flown by a dude, its still got a mission, that mission is still planned by someone, and that someone still does not give a shit about you talking shit about obama in your underwear.

i just dont get it.

WTF are you on about drones for?

This thread wasn't about the folks worried about theoretical drones, its about those of us who don't like the NSA reading our email and phone data.

Which isn't theoretical they are doing it. They've said as much at least the metadata of it and quite possibly the actual data of some of it as well.

Its about us being unhappy they are plugging in at the ISP & email provider level to violate our rights and gather data with very limited oversight, especially since many of these jobs are freaking contracted to 3rd party companies.

[Dickarms]

its amazing to me, just having spent a few years on warships and one or two theater command centers, how different the following things are:

a) what we CAN do
b) what people THINK we can do
c) what we ACTUALLY do
d) what people think we ACTUALLY do

i would say 80% of the time, people overestimate our capabilities entirely. like, wildly. and then again there are some things people are like "thats impossible" that are very, very easy and simple.

you'd be surprised at some of the theories, even by ONBOARD personnel, of what the SPY radar phased arrays are used for

[ovid9]

Oh, I agree, some of the more um, excitable folk, have some fairly crazy ideas as to what goes on, especially as it involves military hardware and stuff.

[Dickarms]

i really dont get teh drone scare, i truly dont.

"omg! they have teh dronz!!!!"

its like, you do realize weaponized aricraft have existed since 1794 technically, and these are no different than if obama wanted to kill your innocent familly with an F16, and you werent complaining when those were built.

i guess the term itself, drone, is misleading. the more proper "UAV" is better, and but not as descriptive as "RC plane with hellfires on it".

i just dont understand what new threat they think drones bring

[Steveijobzz]

I don't understand why people are so scared of the government having huge swaths of metadata when the private sector has been doing this for decades and has WAY more influence in your day to day life.

There was a story on the Atlantic a while ago about a woman who got pregnant and Target knew she was pregnant before her family did because they had her search history, Amazon purchase history, etc.

Now THAT'S fucking creepy.

[Dickarms]

well she was the one buying pregnancy shit before telling anyone. technically the guy at walgreens knows before anyone else, i guess

[ovid9]

I don't understand why people are so scared of the government having huge swaths of metadata when the private sector has been doing this for decades and has WAY more influence in your day to day life.

There was a story on the Atlantic a while ago about a woman who got pregnant and Target knew she was pregnant before her family did because they had her search history, Amazon purchase history, etc.

Now THAT'S fucking creepy.

For me, its because 1) private corps still can't throw us in jail (yet ) and 2) for the most part, we as consumers give away lots of info to companies. Yeah, its creepy as fuck, but that still doesn't mean much in my daily life and I know I've given my soul to google and amazon and did so fairly willingly.

I might not like it, but at least I know its going on.

[Dickarms]

yeah i mean i just don't see the cutoff for some people. "look how cool google is! it knows what i like!" same dude a few minutes later: "dude, the government is going to spy on us and collect all of our data and kill us with drones" just ridiculous.

[Steveijobzz]

Yea I wasn't trying to imply government spying was justified. Just trying to point out that they're still playing catch up with the private sector.

Also, I'd just like to point out that the Patriot Act was passed by a pretty large margin and had pretty broad public support at the time. So if you want to blame someone, blame the early 2000's.

[ovid9]

Yea I wasn't trying to imply government spying was justified. Just trying to point out that they're still playing catch up with the private sector.

Also, I'd just like to point out that the Patriot Act was passed by a pretty large margin and had pretty broad public support (of fearful idiots) at the time. So if you want to blame someone, blame the early 2000's.

Yes, I do blame the early 2000s. 9/11 was awful.

The Patriot Act was a horribly written piece of legislation pushed through on the bodies and fear of the American people. It was bad then, its worse now.

Ugh.

[Dickarms]

i feel like the people are even dumber, by and large, now than they were then.

[Krunchmeister]

yeah i mean i just don't see the cutoff for some people. "look how cool google is! it knows what i like!" same dude a few minutes later: "dude, the government is going to spy on us and collect all of our data and kill us with drones" just ridiculous.

You can live in denial -its been done before usually with sad consequences. The process IS underway to militarize the police force. Just look at the response in the capture of the Boston bomber! The feds are at this time promoting subsidized drones for state and local cops. With the devastation of the middle class will come neo-feudalism with corporations as the ruling class and who's going to keep the poor rabble in their place?

[Dickarms]

im not living in denial. and the drones are literally the same thing as police helicopters, but without people in them. why are people so paranoid now that pilots are sitting in a chair on the ground instead of in the cockpit? i really want that question answered.

i just think its funny, the response to weaponry:

sharp objects: k
fire: k
gunpowder: k
explosives: oooh k
nukes: omg, no budy move this shit could end the world, but k.
drones: OMG!!!!! THE GOVT!@!!!!! VIVA LA REVLOUCION!!!!! OBAMA IS THE DEVIL!!!!!

[primeholy]

Youngblood, I know you feel you know more since you were in the military, but they know most all of you guys are gonna be back in the general population, so you know about as much as they want you to.