Austin shooting

[Ostinato Rubato]

If a perpetrator is still at large don’t you think it’s important to describe them accurately?

If population level studies are being done on disparate rates of a particular phenomena wouldn’t you want to have a clear picture of the demography?

I don’t know why you’re having a hard time seeing how it’s relevant at multiple levels of analysis.

[mortatone]

How accurate is "black"?

[Ostinato Rubato]

I’m not gonna go down a circular road with you where you pretend you yourself don’t depend on heuristics in order to navigate the world.

[mortatone]

I try not to rush to judgement but I'm not perfect. But I still don't see how "black" is such an important descriptor for some folks. I mean it seems REALLY important to some a y'all

[GuitarBilly]

What Mike and Shea are trying to say is if it was a white dude that shot a bunch of people, the words "WHITE SHOOTER" would be part of every news article (except maybe fox news lol).

[mortatone]

How helpful is a description of "white shooter" supposed to be either?

It's just a really obtuse adjective

[clipless bumper]

you seem to be completely missing the underlying narrative that drives these descriptions, or lack thereof.

I'm editing myself now, as I had an entire post written up, but it was too political for here.

let's just say that the reporting is completely different, depending on the race of the shooter. On one side, the race is the most important thing for them to report - on the other, the entire story will be suppressed.

Relevance of the race to solving the crime, or basic reporting due diligence is not the issue.

[GuitarBilly]

Yeah let's not get into politics.
I agree it's irrelevant either way but these days it seems some news outlets emphasize one side or the other.

[GuitarBilly]

let's just say that the reporting is completely different, depending on the race of the shooter.

also depends on who's reporting.

[clipless bumper]

exactly - I meant to say that, but left it out.

this country is SO divided right now, in SO many different areas.......

[primeholy]

Mort, you really don’t get it? I don’t like to get into race, but the media is using race to push their agenda. Mike is explaining it very well, but it is a little confusing.

[mortatone]

I was interested in this word heuristics so I did some reading on it and the different types and how using heuristics can be helpful but also lead to errors in judgement. This copied bit seems to apply perfecty…

“ Heuristics can also contribute to things such as stereotypes and prejudice.5 Because people use mental shortcuts to classify and categorize people, they often overlook more relevant information and create stereotyped categorizations that are not in tune with reality.”

[mortatone]

Mort, you really don’t get it? I don’t like to get into race, but the media is using race to push their agenda. Mike is explaining it very well, but it is a little confusing.

I think I get what they’re saying but I view it as inaccurate.

Seems to me that crimes perpetrated by black people feed a race bias against black people as a whole WAY more than white crime does for white people as a whole and that’s a very significant distinction.

Perfect example is someone in another thread saying “99% of these crimes have a common denominator” but fell short of simply stating what the common denominator was but we can safely assume he meant black people, which of course is a wild exaggeration.

When a white dude commits a crime you don’t hear people talking nonsense about 99% of these crimes being committed by white people. That would be a wild exaggeration, right?



I’mma reflect more on this topic while working today and comment again later.

[GuitarBilly]

You're not wrong either, mort.

[clipless bumper]

there ARE exaggerations on both sides - but the true statistics of who's committing the crimes does not line up with the narrative being pushed by most of the media, and the loudest voices in the political spectrum.

[Ostinato Rubato]

I was interested in this word heuristics so I did some reading on it and the different types and how using heuristics can be helpful but also lead to errors in judgement. This copied bit seems to apply perfecty…

“ Heuristics can also contribute to things such as stereotypes and prejudice.5 Because people use mental shortcuts to classify and categorize people, they often overlook more relevant information and create stereotyped categorizations that are not in tune with reality.”

Everyone depends on heuristics for survival. Not all person’s heuristics are equal in how in touch their heuristics are with reality. But wherever you found that description, it reminds me of the attempt to redefine everything into post-modernist terms which is a worldview that anything and everything a person does, says, or thinks is subordinate to their desire to maintain whatever power dynamics they benefit from.

Yes. Everything is politicized. The concept of race is simultaneously real but also very flawed and often ambiguous and should be replaced with either scientific meanings of population or lineage. But data is simply data. Selecting and gating which data points are used at what time for maintaining a narrative is what we’re talking about.

Yes it works in “both” ways, and what we’re often arguing over isn’t fact based analysis but instead giving lip service to various competing gated narratives that grow evermore honed in on our predisposed biases.

We’re in the middle of a multi-front ideological war that seeks to render our ability to think independently useless.

[mortatone]

I think it’s an exaggerated characterization to say that quote is related to the extreme worldview that you describe. It’s simply saying that mistakes in [heuristic] judgement can lead to bias. It doesn’t say that it ‘does’, just that it ‘can’.

The same article also spoke of the benefits and efficiency of heuristics.

In my observation of conversations, narratives, etc the one word/theme that just keeps coming to mind over and over is exaggeration. There is SOO much exaggeration everywhere. Exaggeration is in full trend with no shortage of takers.

[GuitarBilly]

Yeah it's a shit show and it's everywhere. Ever since we moved, Kimmi was introducing our band as being "from DC" at shows and we invariably got people wanting to tell us their political 2 cents after the shows. Like I give a shit. Now she says we're from Maryland and leave it at that.

It seems like this stuff has completely taken over some people's lives and minds. If only politicians cared about people as much as people care about politics these days lol

Anyway, let's keep the thread from getting political, please.

[***1776***]

It feels like we are in the twilight zone with news and actual reality these days and WITHOUT A DOUBT SOCIAL MEDIA makes things MUCH WORSE


Idiots on the spectrum can spew nonsense on twitter/social media outlet sand then run back to their corner of the world and RARELY GET CHALLENGED for the stuff they say. They run to their fav media outlets and are not really challenged there and the circle just keeps going around and round.


Critical thinking is almost gone, its limited to thought under 280 words and internet memes. Bernie Sanders (doesnt matter if you like or dislike him) back in the mid 1990s was VERY critical of the coverage of USA today as a news source (he said that it was dumbed down, pics in color, no real investigation, etc) and it has only gotten worse. It has only gotten worse and i think the actual news media is atrocious these days


Speed up to current times and shorter attention spans, people want and have access to instant answers, etc i wonder if it will ever get better?

[Dave]

more shootings over the weekend https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/crime/violent-weekend-continues-in-dallas-with-more-than-a-dozen-people-shot-some-fatally/287-570eab5e-9553-4501-812f-1af2fe18b6bf

Notice how there isn't a hint of race mentioned. With some digging around I found one common theme. Men with bitch tits.

[Telephant]

It’s a data point and should just be part of straight forward reporting. So I agree with you that it’s not important per se.

What makes it important is an apparent contrast on when it’s actually reported.

Correct. I’d argue omitting the description because “black people are fragile” may not be full on racist but it’s definitely infantilizing.

Also worth noting the firearms were clearly obtained illegally (to tie it back into Constitutional Carry).

[Telephant]

It was the statement AAS put out that was so strange to me. “We’re not gonna mention the ethnicity of the shooter but we’re going to heavily imply it.” The fuck how is that not worse?!

[***1776***]

more shootings over the weekend https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/crime/violent-weekend-continues-in-dallas-with-more-than-a-dozen-people-shot-some-fatally/287-570eab5e-9553-4501-812f-1af2fe18b6bf

Notice how there isn't a hint of race mentioned. With some digging around I found one common theme. Men with bitch tits.

Crime is rising across the country and its no surprise to anyone if you just are honest and think about the actions of the leaders and D.A.s in these areas, there is a common denominator of stupidity. The mayor of Chicago that beetlejuice looking racist freak should be removed ASAP, incompetence is putting it nicely

The leading mayoral candidate in NY (Eric Adams, actually hes a ex cop) had a volunteer stabbed in broad day light several times with a ice pick while giving out flyers

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/06 ... bronx.html