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Yeah, I think every kid that talks ghetto in an attempt to look tough during his teen years should be shot dead for it too.



I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to come out that the kid did wrong before the confrontation, which seemed to stem from being followed by Zimmerman. I'm not sure it's important that we paint the kid as clean cut or shitty. He was being followed around for no apparent reason, even after dispatcher/whoever told the guy following him he didn't need to. What is it Martin actually DID that required being followed, escalation to a confrontation stemming from that base action, eventually leading to a shooting?

yet another example of FL being completely batshit insane. that law is ridiculous. even if you can flee its still ok to use deadly force. zimmerman knew the law and covered himself when he very easily could have listened to the 911 dispatcher and gone back into his house instead of killing someone.

nightflameauto wrote:Yeah, I think every kid that talks ghetto in an attempt to look tough during his teen years should be shot dead for it too.



I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to come out that the kid did wrong before the confrontation, which seemed to stem from being followed by Zimmerman. I'm not sure it's important that we paint the kid as clean cut or shitty. He was being followed around for no apparent reason, even after dispatcher/whoever told the guy following him he didn't need to. What is it Martin actually DID that required being followed, escalation to a confrontation stemming from that base action, eventually leading to a shooting?

My take on the case is this:

Trayvon was a kid and Zimmerman is an adult. So what if Martin spoke like a thug, smoked weed etc? He was a stupid kid. Almost all of us have done similar stuff at that age. I know I tried to be tough, edgy and rebellious when I was a teenager. I would also be upset at someone profiling me or trying to exert their authority, not the Zimmerman actually had any.

Zimmerman should have been more mature and simply followed Martin at a distance, reported the incident to the police, and not put himself in a position to have to use his weapon.

Neither one was perfect, but you would think the adult in the situation would have been a little more mature and thought things through.

JonVengeance wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:Yeah, I think every kid that talks ghetto in an attempt to look tough during his teen years should be shot dead for it too.



I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to come out that the kid did wrong before the confrontation, which seemed to stem from being followed by Zimmerman. I'm not sure it's important that we paint the kid as clean cut or shitty. He was being followed around for no apparent reason, even after dispatcher/whoever told the guy following him he didn't need to. What is it Martin actually DID that required being followed, escalation to a confrontation stemming from that base action, eventually leading to a shooting?

My take on the case is this:

Trayvon was a kid and Zimmerman is an adult. So what if Martin spoke like a thug, smoked weed etc? He was a stupid kid. Almost all of us have done similar stuff at that age. I know I tried to be tough, edgy and rebellious when I was a teenager. I would also be upset at someone profiling me or trying to exert their authority, not the Zimmerman actually had any.

Zimmerman should have been more mature and simply followed Martin at a distance, reported the incident to the police, and not put himself in a position to have to use his weapon.

Neither one was perfect, but you would think the adult in the situation would have been a little more mature and thought things through.

Great perspective.

EugeneTheJeep wrote:Great perspective.

Yep, and pretty much why I'm utterly confused as to how anyone can really try to defend Zimmerman and/or say Trayvon deserved it.

JonVengeance wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:Yeah, I think every kid that talks ghetto in an attempt to look tough during his teen years should be shot dead for it too.



I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to come out that the kid did wrong before the confrontation, which seemed to stem from being followed by Zimmerman. I'm not sure it's important that we paint the kid as clean cut or shitty. He was being followed around for no apparent reason, even after dispatcher/whoever told the guy following him he didn't need to. What is it Martin actually DID that required being followed, escalation to a confrontation stemming from that base action, eventually leading to a shooting?

My take on the case is this:

Trayvon was a kid and Zimmerman is an adult. So what if Martin spoke like a thug, smoked weed etc? He was a stupid kid. Almost all of us have done similar stuff at that age. I know I tried to be tough, edgy and rebellious when I was a teenager. I would also be upset at someone profiling me or trying to exert their authority, not the Zimmerman actually had any.

Zimmerman should have been more mature and simply followed Martin at a distance, reported the incident to the police, and not put himself in a position to have to use his weapon.

Neither one was perfect, but you would think the adult in the situation would have been a little more mature and thought things through.

I'll play devils advocate and state that the exact reason kids act ghetto, stupid and otherwise immaturely is because they're always given a pass to be an idiot.

Yeah, they don't need to be killed, but this is one of those cases where a loud mouthed teen was actually held accountable.

I doubt the kid would have give a pass to someone his own age a stranger, calling him the n word, and other insults.

So, if he's not going to turn his cheek, why should we expect anyone else?

Lloyd Blankfein wrote:

JonVengeance wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:Yeah, I think every kid that talks ghetto in an attempt to look tough during his teen years should be shot dead for it too.



I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to come out that the kid did wrong before the confrontation, which seemed to stem from being followed by Zimmerman. I'm not sure it's important that we paint the kid as clean cut or shitty. He was being followed around for no apparent reason, even after dispatcher/whoever told the guy following him he didn't need to. What is it Martin actually DID that required being followed, escalation to a confrontation stemming from that base action, eventually leading to a shooting?

My take on the case is this:

Trayvon was a kid and Zimmerman is an adult. So what if Martin spoke like a thug, smoked weed etc? He was a stupid kid. Almost all of us have done similar stuff at that age. I know I tried to be tough, edgy and rebellious when I was a teenager. I would also be upset at someone profiling me or trying to exert their authority, not the Zimmerman actually had any.

Zimmerman should have been more mature and simply followed Martin at a distance, reported the incident to the police, and not put himself in a position to have to use his weapon.

Neither one was perfect, but you would think the adult in the situation would have been a little more mature and thought things through.

I'll play devils advocate and state that the exact reason kids act ghetto, stupid and otherwise immaturely is because they're always given a pass to be an idiot.

Yeah, they don't need to be killed, but this is one of those cases where a loud mouthed teen was actually held accountable.

I doubt the kid would have give a pass to someone his own age a stranger, calling him the n word, and other insults.

So, if he's not going to turn his cheek, why should we expect anyone else?

Because he's an immature kid exhibiting typical teenage behavior and the other dude is a fully grown man with more life experience?

Edit: Furthermore, my brother and I were raised in a family with very strict Christian values. Do you think this stopped us from acting immaturely, rebelling, or generally causing trouble typical of many teenagers?

Wow. Just. . . wow.

Not that I really know what went on, but if Trayvon was on top beating Zimmerman, then it would be self defense.

Lloyd Blankfein wrote:Yeah, they don't need to be killed, but this is one of those cases where a loud mouthed teen was actually held accountable.

Killing someone for being loud-mouthed is holding them accountable?

I haven't really decided who I think is at fault. It seems that both of these guys could have conducted themselves better. Deadly force can never be recalled once unleashed. As was pointed out in another post, Mr Z was the older man here and should have seen where this situation might have been headed. The younger man sounds as if he had a punk attitude and exhibited a racist and confrontational personality. Two wrongs don't make a right, both men should have tried harder to resolve this without a physical altercation which lead to the worst possible outcome. I guess we'll all see what happens in the next few days.

This is all going on not far from here . . . I hope the jury has their shit together.

BrendanO wrote:

Lloyd Blankfein wrote:Yeah, they don't need to be killed, but this is one of those cases where a loud mouthed teen was actually held accountable.

Killing someone for being loud-mouthed is holding them accountable?

He was killed for physically assaulting another person- who in this case was armed.

thenakedarab wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:

EugeneTheJeep wrote:Great perspective.

Yep, and pretty much why I'm utterly confused as to how anyone can really try to defend Zimmerman and/or say Trayvon deserved it.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that my perspective is changing based on facts coming out during testimony. If you are utterly confused as to how anyone can defend Zimmerman, then you're saying you're in possession of more facts than either the prosecution, defense, or judge, and you are utterly incapable of coming to an unbiased opinion regarding Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

Are you telling me that there is no reality in which you can see a testosterone fueled pot-smoking teen starting a fight with an adult? Irregardless of whether or not Zimmerman disregarded the instructions of the 911 operator, it is still possible he acted in self defense no matter how stupid his actions leading him to that point may or may not have been. If Martin was carrying a gun and had broke into multiple homes in the area we'd all be calling Zimmerman a hero and he'd have a damn key to the city.

Nailed it. Tragedy either way. But my opinion is swaying to Martin not being as innocent as every tried to make him.

It really sounds like a guy overreacted, and brought a pair of fists to a gun fight.

thenakedarab wrote:That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that my perspective is changing based on facts coming out during testimony. If you are utterly confused as to how anyone can defend Zimmerman, then you're saying you're in possession of more facts than either the prosecution, defense, or judge, and you are utterly incapable of coming to an unbiased opinion regarding Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

Are you telling me that there is no reality in which you can see a testosterone fueled pot-smoking teen starting a fight with an adult? Irregardless of whether or not Zimmerman disregarded the instructions of the 911 operator, it is still possible he acted in self defense no matter how stupid his actions leading him to that point may or may not have been. If Martin was carrying a gun and had broke into multiple homes in the area we'd all be calling Zimmerman a hero and he'd have a damn key to the city.

I'm telling you I don't understand why Zimmerman had to follow Trayvon in the first place, ESPECIALLY after being told not to by the dispatcher.

But, I'm actually starting to give a fuck here so I'll just bow out. I'm sure I've already convinced several folks I'm a fucking moron on this situation.

Lloyd Blankfein wrote: But my opinion is swaying to Martin not being as innocent as every tried to make him.

What is Martin on trial for again?

Diocide wrote:

Lloyd Blankfein wrote: But my opinion is swaying to Martin not being as innocent as every tried to make him.

What is Martin on trial for again?

Being a punk-ass kid who jumped someone who had
a gun.

like it or not - that is the reality of this trial.

mamberg wrote:

Diocide wrote:

Lloyd Blankfein wrote: But my opinion is swaying to Martin not being as innocent as every tried to make him.

What is Martin on trial for again?

Being a punk-ass kid who jumped someone who had
a gun.

like it or not - that is the reality of this trial.

RACIST!!!

Well I don't like the stand your ground law, but the fact is that based on the current law in FL, Zimmerman does have a self-defense case.

Following someone down the street or even stopping someone and asking questions is stupid and annoying - but it is not a crime.

The physical evidence makes pretty clear that Martin is the one who escalated a street encounter into a physical confrontation, because Zimmerman was beaten up and that could not have happened AFTER he fired the single, fatal shot. Martin showed no injuries other than the shot.

So he does have a self-defense case. Do I like it? No, I don't. But still.

mamberg wrote:

Diocide wrote:

Lloyd Blankfein wrote: But my opinion is swaying to Martin not being as innocent as every tried to make him.

What is Martin on trial for again?

Being a punk-ass kid who jumped someone who had
a gun.

like it or not - that is the reality of this trial.

Hmmm. Lots of conclusions being drawn there.

What's your take on Zimmerman?

Good God. "They" (whoever "they" is) have really succeeded in distracting us when it comes to this case. The fact that this is STILL a racial thing, what, a year later? shows how little we've actually evolved. It started out as a racial thing and no one has put that to rest, it's only been made worse and worse.

can someone explain why zimmerman isn't allowed to use the stand your ground defense?

The black dude outside my office called me a 'cracker' today. Who cares ?

Diocide wrote:

mamberg wrote:

Diocide wrote:

Lloyd Blankfein wrote: But my opinion is swaying to Martin not being as innocent as every tried to make him.

What is Martin on trial for again?

Being a punk-ass kid who jumped someone who had
a gun.

like it or not - that is the reality of this trial.

Hmmm. Lots of conclusions being drawn there.

What's your take on Zimmerman?

not jumping to conclusions - but if the jury believes this he will be found innocent.

nightflameauto wrote:Yeah, I think every kid that talks ghetto in an attempt to look tough during his teen years should be shot dead for it too.



I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to come out that the kid did wrong before the confrontation, which seemed to stem from being followed by Zimmerman. I'm not sure it's important that we paint the kid as clean cut or shitty. He was being followed around for no apparent reason, even after dispatcher/whoever told the guy following him he didn't need to. What is it Martin actually DID that required being followed, escalation to a confrontation stemming from that base action, eventually leading to a shooting?

Nothing at all, until he starts a physical altercation. Well, let's assume events unfolded according to Zimmerman--and the last batch of photo evidence that was released several months back would tend to bear that out. IF Martin sucker punched Zimmerman, and was on top of him beating his head into the pavement, Zimmerman can legally shoot him under Fla. law. In MOST states that allow concealed carry, Zimmerman would have that right. In VA, for example, I only have to be "in fear of my life", which is not exactly spelled out. Someone pounding my head into the pavement would qualify in my book for that.

Zimmerman following Martin is not illegal, nor is it talk to someone in your neighborhood, or even ask them what they're up to. Martin could have told Zimmerman to FAOD, mind your own business, etc. Maybe he did. He's cool up until that point...IF (the crux of the biscuit) HE started the fight, that was his fuck up, and it cost him his life. If Zimmerman started it, that's a whole 'nother story...but we haven't seen anything either way as to who threw the first punch at this point.

I'm guessing the bullet entry/exit data will paint a pretty clear picture of where they were in relation to each other, and either back up what Zimmerman claims or not. Time for CSI to step up .

The original decision by the popo at the time was NOT to charge Zimmerman...it wasn't until this became another Duke lacrosse media circus that the decision was made to do that.

I wouldn't want to be on this jury for anything in the world.

indienoise wrote:Good God. "They" (whoever "they" is) have really succeeded in distracting us when it comes to this case. The fact that this is STILL a racial thing, what, a year later? shows how little we've actually evolved. It started out as a racial thing and no one has put that to rest, it's only been made worse and worse.

It is a one way street and that is what is depressing. Black on White violent attacks are FAR more common.