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...once the pandemic is over with obviously.

Just graduated college with a degree in business/entrepreneurship, and I've been thinking a lot about what I want to do. One idea I've had is to open a bar/music venue (~200 cap) with an emphasis on showcasing local talent. I know it's a tough business though, and I'm weighing out all the risks.

I know a lot of you guys have spent plenty of time in music venues (as have I, to an extent), so what pitfalls should I watch out for or what risks should I take into consideration?

Insurance will likely be the killer.

Honestly it's a good idea. A lot of the current venues will not survive the pandemic, unfortunately. And once this is over, people will be wanting to go out, see live music etc...
So if you have the resources, the timing could be really good.

IMHO, the best way to do it is to have an area for the band and another area with enough sound proofing/distance where people can have conversations while listening to the band through lower volume speakers. Maybe an outside patio would be cool.
Also, make it free admission so people will become regulars and make your money at the bar. Worst thing you can do is have a "promoter" making bands sell tickets so he/she can get paid and you have to deal with having 20 people at the venue on a Saturday... What you should want is create a "local scene" around your venue where people are there no matter who's playing.

Anyway, that would be be my suggestions.

It's doable man and the timing could be good. Do a lot of research, preparation etc (goes without saying) but don't worry about naysayers.
Yeah it's hard and risky but that's the case for pretty much anything worthwhile..

GuitarBilly wrote:Honestly it's a good idea. A lot of the current venues will not survive the pandemic, unfortunately. And once this is over, people will be wanting to go out, see live music etc...
So if you have the resources, the timing could be really good.

IMHO, the best way to do it is to have an area for the band and another area with enough sound proofing/distance where people can have conversations while listening to the band through lower volume speakers. Maybe an outside patio would be cool.
Also, make it free admission so people will become regulars and make your money at the bar. Worst thing you can do is have a "promoter" making bands sell tickets so he/she can get paid and you have to deal with having 20 people at the venue on a Saturday... What you should want is create a "local scene" around your venue where people are there no matter who's playing.

Anyway, that would be be my suggestions.

It's doable man and the timing could be good. Do a lot of research, preparation etc (goes without saying) but don't worry about naysayers.
Yeah it's hard and risky but that's the case for pretty much anything worthwhile..

Yeah the music scene is great here in Raleigh, we've got great communities in metal, and edm especially. I know a bunch of people who play in bands/dj/promote shows. The bar scene is huge too because of all the universities in the area. It's just a matter of finding the right business partner(s) and getting the resources.

I'm with you on cutting out promoters, because they rarely bring enough value to the table imo, but free admission would be tough to pull off. You can't have live music 4-6 nights a week and offer every act a guarantee, it just isn't economically viable. I love our local bands, but half of them couldn't bring 20 people to a show if their lives depended on it. I would have to find another way to incentivise them so everyone is compensated fairly.

GuitarBilly wrote:Honestly it's a good idea. A lot of the current venues will not survive the pandemic, unfortunately. And once this is over, people will be wanting to go out, see live music etc...
So if you have the resources, the timing could be really good.

IMHO, the best way to do it is to have an area for the band and another area with enough sound proofing/distance where people can have conversations while listening to the band through lower volume speakers. Maybe an outside patio would be cool.

THIS THIS THIS.... I really liked how Vamp'd was when I saw you open for Kings X, if I was doing a venue/bar that's the route I would take for sure..... Plus what that layout allows you to do IF you do it right is close off the live area during the day and have the sound proofed area open from say midday as a regular bar and possibly restaurant... or on nights you don't have live acts you can just run the bar and I imagine the costs saving on HVAC alone would be solid having the live area not active.

GuitarBilly wrote:Also, make it free admission so people will become regulars and make your money at the bar. Worst thing you can do is have a "promoter" making bands sell tickets so he/she can get paid and you have to deal with having 20 people at the venue on a Saturday... What you should want is create a "local scene" around your venue where people are there no matter who's playing.

Anyway, that would be be my suggestions.

as a promoter I disagree lol..... BUT what you could do is split the load on the nights, as in you book your nights and then rent out the venue to promoters to do their shows. That's the model we have locally and before the Rona hit it worked... you get your rent and bar sales and the promoter gets the door. Bands pay on those nights would be between them and the promoter so if they get 20 people that's their problem not yours, you'll have you rent and bar sales for the night.


To me the REAL benefit of opening a live venue would be to capitalize on Live Nation's fucked up new contract system where they are expect the Bands to take most of the risk on their shows... If you could hook up with a few tour managers and make sure your place is a spot touring acts hit on a regular basis you could get some good business from that... of course you'd be limited to the acts that want to play a venue your size but hey... if I could see Kings X in Vamp'd I'm sure there would be lots of known bands willing to play in a 200 person sized venue.

You need a good organized bouncer team. Big biker types of all colors. At least 4 but maybe more depending on the club size. And no recirculating air get big exhaust fans to suck it out.

Start working on the liquor license and talking to insurance agents..

In some places (I don't know squat about N.C.), getting a liquor license for a club can be worse than trying to get a concealed weapon permit.

ymmv

That's awesome Noize! Good luck man. Lots of good suggestions so far. Does it rain much in Raleigh? What about a building with no roof, so regardless of COVID you could still stay open. I was just thinking about buying a drive-in movie theater the other day, and converting it to an outdoor venue.

long standing member wrote:Start working on the liquor license and talking to insurance agents..

In some places (I don't know squat about N.C.), getting a liquor license for a club can be worse than trying to get a concealed weapon permit.

ymmv

I imagine it's a process, but there are approximately a MILLION bars per square mile here, so I figure it can't be THAT hard.

Also, to pull this off, I'd have to bring in a business partner that knows the bar business. I know enough about the entertainment side of things, but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew on my own.

itchyfingers wrote:That's awesome Noize! Good luck man. Lots of good suggestions so far. Does it rain much in Raleigh? What about a building with no roof, so regardless of COVID you could still stay open. I was just thinking about buying a drive-in movie theater the other day, and converting it to an outdoor venue.

The weather here is hard to explain to non-locals It's kinda all over the place temperature and humidity wise, and we do get a bit of rain, so a fully outdoor place wouldn't be ideal.

I bet the drive-in/amphitheater model would work great as long as you're in some place like florida or socal. Definitely worth giving it a go.

Noizemaker wrote:
I'm with you on cutting out promoters, because they rarely bring enough value to the table imo, but free admission would be tough to pull off. You can't have live music 4-6 nights a week and offer every act a guarantee, it just isn't economically viable. I love our local bands, but half of them couldn't bring 20 people to a show if their lives depended on it. I would have to find another way to incentivise them so everyone is compensated fairly.

yeah don't offer a guarantee. Offer the band a cut of the attendance. At the end of the night, count the number of tabs open that night (so you're counting drinking/paying customers only) and give the band $X per tab. If a customer is making cash purchases tell your bartender to keep all purchases from that customer in a single sales slip so you can count them at the end of the night, a "cash tab" of sorts.
You can do an overall split between all bands or have a system where your bartender asks what band they're there to see before making a sale or opening a tab and writes down the name of the band on each tab or sale slip (for cash purchases).

Local bands don't need a guarantee as much as they need an audience so most bands will prefer to have a show where they can advertise as free admission.
You will also be surprised how many bands that can't draw 20 people when they have to sell tickets can actually draw more than that when playing free admission. My band is like that, we have trouble selling even 10 pre-sale tickets but we can easily draw 30-50 people when playing free shows in the Baltimore/DC area, which we have been concentrating on. We have a lot of friends that like the band, but people in general just don't like to pay tickets for local shows.

You can also offer bands a space to set merch tables so they can make money that way.

Obviously that's for local original shows only. If you are doing tribute acts, cover bands etc you may be able to get away with charging door but idk...

And if you will do small national acts, then obviously those need to have a door charge to cover the band's cost (and you can offer opening slots for these shows in exchange of a minimum presale).

Marc G wrote:THIS THIS THIS.... I really liked how Vamp'd was when I saw you open for Kings X, if I was doing a venue/bar that's the route I would take for sure..... Plus what that layout allows you to do IF you do it right is close off the live area during the day and have the sound proofed area open from say midday as a regular bar and possibly restaurant... or on nights you don't have live acts you can just run the bar and I imagine the costs saving on HVAC alone would be solid having the live area not active.



as a promoter I disagree lol..... BUT what you could do is split the load on the nights, as in you book your nights and then rent out the venue to promoters to do their shows. That's the model we have locally and before the Rona hit it worked... you get your rent and bar sales and the promoter gets the door. Bands pay on those nights would be between them and the promoter so if they get 20 people that's their problem not yours, you'll have you rent and bar sales for the night.


To me the REAL benefit of opening a live venue would be to capitalize on Live Nation's fucked up new contract system where they are expect the Bands to take most of the risk on their shows... If you could hook up with a few tour managers and make sure your place is a spot touring acts hit on a regular basis you could get some good business from that... of course you'd be limited to the acts that want to play a venue your size but hey... if I could see Kings X in Vamp'd I'm sure there would be lots of known bands willing to play in a 200 person sized venue.

Vamp'd is a good example of a well managed venue. Most of their local shows are free to get in so the place is packed every weekend. I was there every Thursday, Friday and Saturday regardless of who was playing because it's free to get in and all our friends hung out there. And we all drank all night so it's not like the venue was not making money.

They'd just pay the band based on each night's attendance, even though most of us were regulars anyway. But it was just fair for the bands and worked well for the house too

Then for the national shows like King's X, they charged a door price and paid both the main act and the opening band (opening bands get paid a lot less obviously).

But there was no pay to play there and we always got paid whether it was a free local night or opening for a national act.

GuitarBilly wrote:

Noizemaker wrote:
I'm with you on cutting out promoters, because they rarely bring enough value to the table imo, but free admission would be tough to pull off. You can't have live music 4-6 nights a week and offer every act a guarantee, it just isn't economically viable. I love our local bands, but half of them couldn't bring 20 people to a show if their lives depended on it. I would have to find another way to incentivise them so everyone is compensated fairly.

yeah don't offer a guarantee. Offer the band a cut of the attendance. At the end of the night, count the number of tabs open that night (so you're counting drinking/paying customers only) and give the band $X per tab. If a customer is making cash purchases tell your bartender to keep all purchases from that customer in a single sales slip so you can count them at the end of the night, a "cash tab" of sorts.
You can do an overall split between all bands or have a system where your bartender asks what band they're there to see before making a sale or opening a tab and writes down the name of the band on each tab or sale slip (for cash purchases).

Local bands don't need a guarantee as much as they need an audience so most bands will prefer to have a show where they can advertise as free admission.
You will also be surprised how many bands that can't draw 20 people when they have to sell tickets can actually draw more than that when playing free admission. My band is like that, we have trouble selling even 10 pre-sale tickets but we can easily draw 30-50 people when playing free shows in the Baltimore/DC area, which we have been concentrating on. We have a lot of friends that like the band, but people in general just don't like to pay tickets for local shows.

You can also offer bands a space to set merch tables so they can make money that way.

Obviously that's for local original shows only. If you are doing tribute acts, cover bands etc you may be able to get away with charging door but idk...

And if you will do small national acts, then obviously those need to have a door charge to cover the band's cost (and you can offer opening slots for these shows in exchange of a minimum presale).

Marc G wrote:THIS THIS THIS.... I really liked how Vamp'd was when I saw you open for Kings X, if I was doing a venue/bar that's the route I would take for sure..... Plus what that layout allows you to do IF you do it right is close off the live area during the day and have the sound proofed area open from say midday as a regular bar and possibly restaurant... or on nights you don't have live acts you can just run the bar and I imagine the costs saving on HVAC alone would be solid having the live area not active.



as a promoter I disagree lol..... BUT what you could do is split the load on the nights, as in you book your nights and then rent out the venue to promoters to do their shows. That's the model we have locally and before the Rona hit it worked... you get your rent and bar sales and the promoter gets the door. Bands pay on those nights would be between them and the promoter so if they get 20 people that's their problem not yours, you'll have you rent and bar sales for the night.


To me the REAL benefit of opening a live venue would be to capitalize on Live Nation's fucked up new contract system where they are expect the Bands to take most of the risk on their shows... If you could hook up with a few tour managers and make sure your place is a spot touring acts hit on a regular basis you could get some good business from that... of course you'd be limited to the acts that want to play a venue your size but hey... if I could see Kings X in Vamp'd I'm sure there would be lots of known bands willing to play in a 200 person sized venue.

Vamp'd is a good example of a well managed venue. Most of their local shows are free to get in so the place is packed every weekend. I was there every Thursday, Friday and Saturday regardless of who was playing because it's free to get in and all our friends hung out there. And we all drank all night so it's not like the venue was not making money.

They'd just pay the band based on each night's attendance, even though most of us were regulars anyway. But it was just fair for the bands and worked well for the house too

Then for the national shows like King's X, they charged a door price and paid both the main act and the opening band (opening bands get paid a lot less obviously).

But there was no pay to play there and we always got paid whether it was a free local night or opening for a national act.

Yup. Good enough sized venue, good sound, lots of places to "get away" if you want to.