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I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

I only see a red x, what does it say?

"When you're at the edge of reason, take a leap of faith"

wat wrote:I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

"When you're at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith."

It is just a quote and not taken from scripture per se, but from a religious perspective, it essentially says that when you have taken reason as far as you can and you don't have anywhere else to go because you are still looking for answers, look to faith.

At least that's how I would read it.

Let the mockery commence.

basically, when you're to the point that things just don't make sense trust in God.

dont worry about logic just believe anyway

So, don't question and don't think? Just blindly accept that the millions of landfaring species on earth all fit on Noah's Ark or I'll burn in hell for all eternity, got it

wat wrote:So, don't question and don't think? Just blindly accept that the millions of landfaring species on earth all fit on Noah's Ark or I'll burn in hell for all eternity, got it

You've missed the point. It suggests that logic and reason will only take you so far, and that once you reach that point, you should seek jeebus.

I'm not a believer or anything, but there isn't anything crazy about that sign.

It seems to be saying, "Don't think, belieb." Or it could be saying, "If you are confused after thinking about it for a while, give up and just belieb."

Either way, it's terrible advice.

It means, when something is beyond your thought/control, just toss your hand to the air and let the guy in the sky do it all for you.

Which is odd, the bible is filled with example of example of what a hard cunt god is and how he makes you do/endure the worst shit for no reason beyond it is its whim.

Derek

marshallnoise wrote:

wat wrote:I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

"When you're at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith."

It is just a quote and not taken from scripture per se, but from a religious perspective, it essentially says that when you have taken reason as far as you can and you don't have anywhere else to go because you are still looking for answers, look to faith.

At least that's how I would read it.

Let the mockery commence.

You asked for it,... ......

Rephrased for clarity: When you have taken reason as far as you think you can, logical fallacies are your only option! Particularly, The Argument from Ignorance. Because god damn it, if I can't personally think of a better explanation or any explanation at all, a made-up one is the best choice.

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

wat wrote:I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

"When you're at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith."

It is just a quote and not taken from scripture per se, but from a religious perspective, it essentially says that when you have taken reason as far as you can and you don't have anywhere else to go because you are still looking for answers, look to faith.

At least that's how I would read it.

Let the mockery commence.

You asked for it,... ......

Rephrased for mockery: When you have taken reason as far as you think you can, logical fallacies are your only option! Particularly, The Argument from Ignorance. Because god damn it, if I can't personally think of a better explanation or any explanation at all, a made-up one is the best choice.

Fixed.

marshallnoise wrote:

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

wat wrote:I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

"When you're at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith."

It is just a quote and not taken from scripture per se, but from a religious perspective, it essentially says that when you have taken reason as far as you can and you don't have anywhere else to go because you are still looking for answers, look to faith.

At least that's how I would read it.

Let the mockery commence.

You asked for it,... ......

Rephrased for mockery: When you have taken reason as far as you think you can, logical fallacies are your only option! Particularly, The Argument from Ignorance. Because god damn it, if I can't personally think of a better explanation or any explanation at all, a made-up one is the best choice.

Fixed.

Well, it is accurate. That exactly describes the argument from ignorance. Mockery or not. Nice rebuttal, by the way. You make excellent points.

"When reason still leaves you with questions, arbitrarily subscribe to the religious views of this particular church."

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

wat wrote:I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

"When you're at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith."

It is just a quote and not taken from scripture per se, but from a religious perspective, it essentially says that when you have taken reason as far as you can and you don't have anywhere else to go because you are still looking for answers, look to faith.

At least that's how I would read it.

Let the mockery commence.

You asked for it,... ......

Rephrased for mockery: When you have taken reason as far as you think you can, logical fallacies are your only option! Particularly, The Argument from Ignorance. Because god damn it, if I can't personally think of a better explanation or any explanation at all, a made-up one is the best choice.

Fixed.

Well, it is accurate. That exactly describes the argument from ignorance. Mockery or not. Nice rebuttal, by the way. You make excellent points.

Personal opinion noted.

marshallnoise wrote:

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

wat wrote:I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

"When you're at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith."

It is just a quote and not taken from scripture per se, but from a religious perspective, it essentially says that when you have taken reason as far as you can and you don't have anywhere else to go because you are still looking for answers, look to faith.

At least that's how I would read it.

Let the mockery commence.

You asked for it,... ......

Rephrased for mockery: When you have taken reason as far as you think you can, logical fallacies are your only option! Particularly, The Argument from Ignorance. Because god damn it, if I can't personally think of a better explanation or any explanation at all, a made-up one is the best choice.

Fixed.

Well, it is accurate. That exactly describes the argument from ignorance. Mockery or not. Nice rebuttal, by the way. You make excellent points.

Personal opinion noted.

Look up Subjectivist Fallacy, or Relativist Fallacy. Here, I'll even provide a link for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativist_fallacy

You have a right to your own opinions. You do not have a right to your own facts.

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

wat wrote:I drove by this sign the other night. I want to understand the meaning, anybody have any ideas?

"When you're at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith."

It is just a quote and not taken from scripture per se, but from a religious perspective, it essentially says that when you have taken reason as far as you can and you don't have anywhere else to go because you are still looking for answers, look to faith.

At least that's how I would read it.

Let the mockery commence.

You asked for it,... ......

Rephrased for mockery: When you have taken reason as far as you think you can, logical fallacies are your only option! Particularly, The Argument from Ignorance. Because god damn it, if I can't personally think of a better explanation or any explanation at all, a made-up one is the best choice.

Fixed.

Well, it is accurate. That exactly describes the argument from ignorance. Mockery or not. Nice rebuttal, by the way. You make excellent points.

Personal opinion noted.

Look up Subjectivist Fallacy, or Relativist Fallacy. Here, I'll even provide a link for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativist_fallacy

You have a right to your own opinions. You do not have a right to your own facts.

Where is the established fact here that I am saying is relative?

"When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" does not = (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists.

It is your opinion that "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is the same thing as the Argument of Ignorance, but it simply something that you parade around as if is a fact.

Consequently, (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists. is the exact same thing as (1) No one has been able to prove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God doesn't exist. I do hope you see that.

The truth is, "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is merely inviting someone to explore something other than "reason."

All the sign does is poorly link up two clichés in order to bring people in to the church. Crappy marketing.

marshallnoise wrote:
Where is the established fact here that I am saying is relative?

"When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" does not = (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists.

It is your opinion that "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is the same thing as the Argument of Ignorance, but it simply something that you parade around as if is a fact.

Faith is believing things without evidence. So yes, that is the argument from ignorance. "When you are at the edge of reason, believe things without evidence." is a form of the argument from ignorance.

marshallnoise wrote:Consequently, (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists. is the exact same thing as (1) No one has been able to prove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God doesn't exist. I do hope you see that.

I'm well aware, thanks.

marshallnoise wrote:The truth is, "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is merely inviting someone to explore something other than "reason."

While that may be sound advice (lol), please see above. Unless you are using a different definition of faith? In either case, it is complete shit advice.

marshallnoise wrote:All the sign does is poorly link up two clichés in order to bring people in to the church. Crappy marketing.

I disagree. I'm of the opinion that it is effective marketing. It plays on that which humans are susceptible to. We are natural born supernaturalists. Logical fallacies come natural to us. Which is why we need to be conscious of them.

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:
Where is the established fact here that I am saying is relative?

"When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" does not = (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists.

It is your opinion that "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is the same thing as the Argument of Ignorance, but it simply something that you parade around as if is a fact.

Faith is believing things without evidence. So yes, that is the argument from ignorance. "When you are at the edge of reason, believe things without evidence." is a form of the argument from ignorance.

marshallnoise wrote:Consequently, (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists. is the exact same thing as (1) No one has been able to prove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God doesn't exist. I do hope you see that.

I'm well aware, thanks.

marshallnoise wrote:The truth is, "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is merely inviting someone to explore something other than "reason."

While that may be sound advice (lol), please see above. Unless you are using a different definition of faith? In either case, it is complete shit advice.

marshallnoise wrote:All the sign does is poorly link up two clichés in order to bring people in to the church. Crappy marketing.

I disagree. I'm of the opinion that it is effective marketing. It plays on that which humans are susceptible to. We are natural born supernaturalists. Logical fallacies come natural to us. Which is why we need to be conscious of them.

I just think it is interesting that you say people are ignorant for not coming to rational conclusions while using "rational" thought to disprove something that can't be proven one way or another via reason. Isn't that an irrational application of reason?

I missed the part where anyone here even attempted to disprove the existence of a god. In other words, WTF are you talking about?

marshallnoise wrote:

Cflat wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:
Where is the established fact here that I am saying is relative?

"When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" does not = (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists.

It is your opinion that "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is the same thing as the Argument of Ignorance, but it simply something that you parade around as if is a fact.

Faith is believing things without evidence. So yes, that is the argument from ignorance. "When you are at the edge of reason, believe things without evidence." is a form of the argument from ignorance.

marshallnoise wrote:Consequently, (1) No one has been able to disprove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God exists. is the exact same thing as (1) No one has been able to prove the existence of God. Therefore: (2) God doesn't exist. I do hope you see that.

I'm well aware, thanks.

marshallnoise wrote:The truth is, "When you are at the edge of reason...take a leap of faith" is merely inviting someone to explore something other than "reason."

While that may be sound advice (lol), please see above. Unless you are using a different definition of faith? In either case, it is complete shit advice.

marshallnoise wrote:All the sign does is poorly link up two clichés in order to bring people in to the church. Crappy marketing.

I disagree. I'm of the opinion that it is effective marketing. It plays on that which humans are susceptible to. We are natural born supernaturalists. Logical fallacies come natural to us. Which is why we need to be conscious of them.

I just think it is interesting that you say people are ignorant for not coming to rational conclusions while using "rational" thought to disprove something that can't be proven one way or another via reason. Isn't that an irrational application of reason?

You really need to pay attention to what I'm actually saying instead of arguing with an imaginary strawman.
Show me where I called anyone ignorant or where I claimed to disprove god. When you're done looking, come back here and apologize for your strawman, red herrings, backpedaling, and trying to change the subject.....again. It's getting old. Surprise me for once.

Most of you have missed the point entirely, either deliberately or out of ignorance of the history of Christian thought. It's a paraphrase of Thomas Aquinas, one of the most scholarly and learned -- and resonable -- theologians who ever lived. Look him up, do a bit of research, and drop the deliberate, belligerent, acrimonious ignorance.

Peace, y'all!

C.

draelyc wrote:Most of you have missed the point entirely, either deliberately or out of ignorance of the history of Christian thought. It's a paraphrase of Thomas Aquinas, one of the most scholarly and learned -- and resonable -- theologians who ever lived. Look him up, do a bit of research, and drop the deliberate, belligerent, acrimonious ignorance.

Peace, y'all!

C.

That reasonable and learned scholar also believed that heretics and nonbelievers should be killed.

I don't bring that up to prove anything other than the fact that these things are irrelevant. An argument should stand or fall on its own, without appeals to someone's authority. I won't even get into how laughably fallacious all five of his "proofs" are.

But back to the church sign, it is still completely ridiculous and fallacious, and all around bad advice.

draelyc wrote:Most of you have missed the point entirely, either deliberately or out of ignorance of the history of Christian thought. It's a paraphrase of Thomas Aquinas, one of the most scholarly and learned -- and resonable -- theologians who ever lived. Look him up, do a bit of research, and drop the deliberate, belligerent, acrimonious ignorance.

Peace, y'all!

C.

“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”

- TA

"when you cant prove anything anymore, make shit up!" --Jesus.