Guitar Gear Forum

I've been trying to work out some clips of my new amp and like every clip I have ever made, it just sounds like crap. What sounds smooth, clear and articulate in the room (and with my ear against the cab) sounds muffled and grainy once recorded. I've experimented with mic positioning, the amp's EQ and the input sensitivity on my interface and I still can't capture anything close to that room sound on tape. Even with some compression and EQ, the mix blows and the guitars still sound lifeless and just sit on top of the mix instead of mixing with it.

With all of that said, do you guys have any websites you could recommend for good tips related to recording rock guitar? Maybe some EQing tips or even a good free VST EQ plugin recommendation?

Rambling post incoming...

Compression and EQ will never fix something that doesn't sound right to begin with. It always comes back to the source; Performance, amp sound in the room and how you miked it. You'd be surprised how little EQ/ Compression is actually done on many professional releases, it's a bit of an internet myth that every track gets processed.

The sound the mic picks up will never never never be what your ear actually hears when you stand in the room with the amp, or even with your ear against the grill cloth. Your ears don't work like mikes, they have different pickup patterns, they colour sound at different volumes, have complex data decoding centres in the brain to help you work out what you should hear... you get the idea. A mic diaphragm just sits there stupidly and flaps back and forward.

So in your typical guitar recording situation you need to be able to hear what the mic is actually picking up, and adjust the amp settings/ guitar/ mic position/ number of mikes/ where the amp is in the room/ what plectrum you're using etc to get the sound you actually want on record. The tone you're aiming for might be not be what you think; for example, psychoacoustic masking means that once there's bass and kick on the mix, it won't matter that your tone might sound thin. Once there's a vocal competing in the midrange and cymbals bashing away on top, a grainy sound might be essential to stop the guitar being too smooth to actually be audible in the mix.

That's why coloured mikes like the SM57/MD421/Royer Ribbons are so popular with guitar tracks. It's about ending up with a sound that's the right shape to slot into a mix.

For what you're doing, demoing your amp, you may want a more realistic sound - more an impression of what it's actually like to be standing in the room with the guitar.

If you're properly serious about recording, you'll need to first deal with your room acoustics and monitoring situation. You need to know that the sound you're hearing is what's actually happening in the room, and the sound you're hearing through the monitors is what you're actually getting down on tape (or hard disk). In your typical untreated room you'll have standing waves and comb filtering that can radically change the tone from one position to another. If your room is well treated, you can put a decent condensor mic up where your ears are and it'll sound reasonably similar to what you're actually hearing in the room.

Mic wise, there are lots of choices. People tend to get frustrated with SM57s if it's accuracy they want; that's not really what they're for. A cheapo dynamic mic might be better, such as the Audio Technica AT2020 or something similarly priced. Hardly pro-level stuff, but they'll give you more of the amp-in-the-room sound than a '57.

In terms of mic positioning, it's pretty straight forward. Move it round until it sounds good. You can look at all the pictures you like but they only tell you what worked for those guys with that setup on that day. Close up, room mic, off axis... you've just got to put the effort in to make it sound the way you want.

Mixing tips? Well... it just depends on the mix. Anyone who says to do something as a matter of course is doing you a disservice. It changes depending on what you recorded and how it needs to be slotted into the overall picture, and you've just got to use your ears and learn your tools. So much of the internet received wisdom that you'll read is bullshit. Stuff like always hi-pass, always compress bass... sometimes you need to, sometimes you don't. It's always about using your ears. Personally, I hardly ever compress a guitar track unless it's a special effect and I want it to sound small/ boxy/ ultra controlled. And I only EQ to fit the mix, which means the eq settings are totally different from track to track.

For EQ plugins, the Kjaerhaus stuff is good. The "Classic" range is free but I think they went out of business so it might be possible to get the Gold range somewhere without ripping someone off.



Sorry I didn't just say "put the mic 5 inches from the centre of the speaker, eq +3db at 600hz, high pass at 100hz and compress with a 2:1 ratio" But it just doesn't work that way.

So you mean there isn't some autotune-like program that will just miraculously make my recording sound good? Screw it, I give up.

Seriously, thanks for the response man.

Right now my biggest problem with my SM-57 is that it always seems to add some kind of artificial buzz to the high end of my tracks which I just can't seem to EQ out of it. I have tried recording with the mic sensitivity very high or very low and it is always there. Yesterday I turned the High and Accent controls on my amp down completely and in addition to sounding like there was a blanket between the speaker and mic, there was still that annoying buzzy notch sitting there on each track. I have moved the mic all around the speaker, from the edge to the cone, and I just can't find a position where it isn't there. I wouldn't mind so much for metal or hard rock, but it is pretty terrible sounding whenever you are trying to do something along the lines of Santana/Steely Dan/SRV/etc. I tried doing some EQ and compression and while it helps tame some of the buzz, it completely destroys the tone.

As far as mic sensitivity is concerned, would you have any recommendations as far as the dB level that I should be recording at? I have heard guys say that you want to feed your interface/DAW with the hottest signal you can without clipping and I've heard others say you want it to be quiet and that you can bring the level up in the mix. I am really thinking that this is a big part of why my tone blows.

I'm thinking that room micing may just be simpler for me, because even the mic on my iPad can capture better and more realistic tones than my SM57. Complete recording idiot.

Rampage wrote:Right now my biggest problem with my SM-57 is that it always seems to add some kind of artificial buzz to the high end of my tracks which I just can't seem to EQ out of it.

Something to remember about the SM series is that they use alnico magnets. So just like alnico speakers, they compress and smear the treble and get a bit buzzy in the high end when pushed. And the louder you play, the more that happens. The Beta series use ceramic magnets and are a little more solid/ punchy/ clear as a result.

Like I say, that added ragged quality is often perfect for keeping high gain guitars audible and in your face in the mix against cymbals etc, but if it is bugging you it'll be hell.

Rampage wrote:I have moved the mic all around the speaker, from the edge to the cone, and I just can't find a position where it isn't there.

Have you tried pulling the mic back further away, or turning it so it's at, say, a 45 degree angle to the speaker? Further back gives you a more open bottom end, more of an in-the-room sound, and means you're not pummelling the mic as hard. Tilting it off-axis softens the high end and might help reduce the buzzy quality you're getting in the top end.

Rampage wrote:As far as mic sensitivity is concerned, would you have any recommendations as far as the dB level that I should be recording at? I have heard guys say that you want to feed your interface/DAW with the hottest signal you can without clipping and I've heard others say you want it to be quiet and that you can bring the level up in the mix.

As far as the actual volume of the amp, wherever it sounds right. With a valve amp that's usually pretty loud, but unless it's a vintage, compressed tone you're going for I usually like to be as loud as I can be without the power section starting to lose clarity. Getting the speakers moving and the cab resonating is kinda an important part of it all for me, and it makes it more fun to play too.

Recording input volume is a whole different kettle of fish. The guys that are saying hottest signal are totally wrong. When recording to digital, you usually want to aim for your peaks to be at their loudest about -12db if it's dynamic stuff like drums, and -15db or so if it's something naturally compressed like electric guitar. That'll get you the best tone overall.

Why? Because with digital 0db is the absolute loudest signal possible. If you're pumping a signal into your soundcard's digital converters that's as powerful as that, you're totally overpowering the analog parts of the soundcard. And the analog parts are usually very cheap, shitty consumer components that'll distort all over the place.

The argument that says you must be as loud as possible is that when you record quieter, you get lower digital resolution. But at 24 bit you could record with the peaks at -48db and still have as much fidelity as a 16 bit audio CD. So there's no need to record loudly at all, leave plenty of headroom even if it feels weird to do so and it'll all sound much more punchy and alive.

Leave the volume increase 'til after the mix.

Rampage wrote:I'm thinking that room micing may just be simpler for me, because even the mic on my iPad can capture better and more realistic tones than my SM57. Complete recording idiot.

The tascam stereo mic I use on my Ipad is pretty sweet. It sounds pretty much like it does in the room, but I think if I tried to put that in a full band mix I'd end up with really distant ambient sounds that had no real punch.


Something that's kinda cool is Slipperman's distorted guitars from hell; http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html He's a recording engineer who's worked with some quality heavy bands in proper studios for ages. He rambles like an idiot, but his experience and willingness to talk things through makes it recording gold!

The guide is taken from lots of posts in a long forum thread, so it's a bit spotty in places.


I rate the womb forums and pro recording workshop as cool recording places filled with professionals. Go to places like gearslutz or tape op and you're frequently wading through reams of misinformation and definitive guides by people that know less than you.

Thanks for the tips dude!

I can see where the buzzy character could be valuable and I know that it would work well for certain things I want to record (think like the Kid Charlemagne solo), but it gets annoying when you are trying to get that real clear, smooth overdrive tone like Oye Como Va and there's this rough, raspy high end that you can hear on each track.

I have tried keeping the mic parallel to the cone, closer to the edge because that is definitely the smoothest tone I can find, but I haven't tried pulling it away from the cone. Would you have any recommended starting distance for moving it back? Something short like 8 cm, or something more significant like 20-30 cm?

It sounds like the first thing I will do will be to modify my input sensitivity. I'm not sure what I've been recording at, but it has to be around 20 dB or higher which is a little ways off -12db. I think I might grab some old milk crates from my garage to give the amp a boost so that I can be sure that I like the tone at ear level, then I'll cut the mic sensitivity so that my peaks are at the -12 dB mark and then I'll start to mess around with the mic position/distance. Once I can get an unadulterated tone that is a little closer to what I want, then I'll start to worry about EQ/compression/etc.

Now to watch the clock for the rest of the day until I can go try some recording.

just stick the fucking mic close to grill cloth, straight on, at the edge of the dustcap.

oye coma va tone sucks anyway.

rear naked wrote:just stick the fucking mic close to grill cloth, straight on, at the edge of the dustcap.

oye coma va tone sucks anyway.

See that's pretty much what I do. But Steve Albini (for example) hates 57s with a passion and most pics I've seen show various mics like a foot or more back from the amp.

I'm really beginning to think that there is something wrong with my interface. I cut the dB level down, messed around with the sensitivity levels and mic positioning, and it blows. Even going direct in from the preamp out and using some Redwirez impulses sucks ass.

Rampage wrote:I'm really beginning to think that there is something wrong with my interface. I cut the dB level down, messed around with the sensitivity levels and mic positioning, and it blows. Even going direct in from the preamp out and using some Redwirez impulses sucks ass.

Everyone thinks that when they just start recording and all their stuff sounds like butthole.



What are you using?

rear naked wrote:

Rampage wrote:I'm really beginning to think that there is something wrong with my interface. I cut the dB level down, messed around with the sensitivity levels and mic positioning, and it blows. Even going direct in from the preamp out and using some Redwirez impulses sucks ass.

Everyone thinks that when they just start recording and all their stuff sounds like butthole.



What are you using?

Roland UA-25EX

I'm just taking the easy way out right now and blaming it for my shortcomings as a player and recording noob.

I think it's time to post some clips!

Good stuff here in this thread. Even though I didn't start the thread I am taking in a lot of the info being shared - thanks guys. For me it is the cheap mic I am using - I am fairly sure anyway. It is a shit USB mic that came with my brothers Xbox. I have tried a few other cheapo mics and this one works the best. I know I am going to have to break down and get a decent mic but some of the info here is helpful whether you have a 10$ mic or a 200$ mic.

rear naked wrote:Everyone thinks that when they just start recording and all their stuff sounds like butthole.

My stuff really does sound like butthole. That is almost a perfect description of my "sound"...

Is it in a mix of any kind? The first time I recorded guitars, I couldn't believe how bad it sounded. As I've gotten more experience, I've come to find that guitar tracks that sound good in a mix actually DO sound like butthole on their own. It's all about context.

Cirrus wrote:I think it's time to post some clips!

I'll throw some up tomorrow or Friday. I had a short chance to try out some different things this morning and definitely noticed improvements: I swapped inputs on my interface, turned on the unit's compression feature and changed the recording quality. I also downloaded some new VSTs and am getting better results from my H/L pass filters. It still sounds shitty, but it is a big improvement, which tells me that it is just my dumb ass which is getting in the way of good tone.

Markdude wrote:Is it in a mix of any kind? The first time I recorded guitars, I couldn't believe how bad it sounded. As I've gotten more experience, I've come to find that guitar tracks that sound good in a mix actually DO sound like butthole on their own. It's all about context.

I have backing tracks and while I agree that tracks sound better with the other instruments, they still sound blah. Meh, I suck at recording.

Damn, Cirrus - excellent stuff, and very timely for me. I'm setting up a small recording workstation at my house, and have an SM57. I've always had trouble replicating what I'm hearing, and now it makes a lot more sense. Sounds like I need to actually put some stuff together with drums, bass, vox, etc., so I can see how the recorded guitar sounds when it's fighting for air. Thanks, sir!

Another thing with SM57s is that they do like to be run into a nice preamp. I've always preferred to use two 57s (or a 57 and something else), and have never really been too happy with single mic recordings. That said, your best buddy for mic'ing cabs is a good pair of isolating headphones so you can sit there and move the mic around while listening to the sound actually being picked up.

Markdude wrote:As I've gotten more experience, I've come to find that guitar tracks that sound good in a mix actually DO sound like butthole on their own. It's all about context.

Clarification: Guitars that sound great in a mix don't necessarily sound great in isolation. But not all great sounding guitars will sound like shit once you take away the rest of the band.

Markdude wrote:Is it in a mix of any kind? The first time I recorded guitars, I couldn't believe how bad it sounded. As I've gotten more experience, I've come to find that guitar tracks that sound good in a mix actually DO sound like butthole on their own. It's all about context.

I came here to post this. The best tone I've found to sit in a mix that you want to sound huge, is pretty thin, bright and weak so you leave room for the kick, snare and bass guitar which make most of the "hugeness" in the mix. Especially if you layer multiple tracks of guitar.

One of the best tones I came up with were a mix of two tracks of am radio middy tone and an awful sounding scooped bassy tone. Mixed together, perfect.

nakedzen wrote:Especially if you layer multiple tracks of guitar.

When you do that, the grainy fizzy SM57 treble works brilliantly because what I find is that the more you add, the more the rough top end starts to smooth out. I guess it's a bit like using a roller to put paint on the walls. One roll leaves patches unpainted, subsequent rolls give you an even coverage.

Don't try and tell me it's a crap metaphor, I already know.

DNW wrote:Another thing with SM57s is that they do like to be run into a nice preamp. I've always preferred to use two 57s (or a 57 and something else), and have never really been too happy with single mic recordings.

You can get excellent results from these types of techniques. Such as using two 57's in different positions as a mixing eq or to get the same type of effect from using two different mics entirely. Just remember, you can't run until you learn to walk. If you can't get a good, usable sound with one mic you're not doing yourself any favor's by adding a second. Just opening a whole new can of worms of disappointment.

I am just becoming really frustrated with the whole recording thing: No matter what, recorded tracks sound dull, fizzy and overly distorted. So far, here is what I have tried:

1) I rigged together a bit of a "de-coupler" with some rigid foam to get the amp off the ground, which helped a bit.
2) I took a piece of cardboard and put some latex mattress foam on it so that I could put it between the amp/mic and me, which has translated to a more articulate tone and less noise.
3) I have tried moving the mic all over the speaker: Cone to edge, grille to ~ 5 inches off, 45 degrees or straight and have found that probably 2/3 of the way toward the edge with the mic off the grille is my favorite position.
4) I have messed with the compression settings on my interface (bypass, limiter, comp 1 and comp 2) and have found my favorite/smoothest setting.

After all of the above, I sat in front of the amp with my headphones on just turning knobs until I got a tone that sounded full and smooth through the direct monitor of the interface. I was very pleased with the tone I heard from the direct monitoring, so I got to recording. Recorded a track and it sounds quiet, buzzy and overly saturated and almost as if there is a clean version of what I recorded with this layer of treble-infested buzz sitting on top of it. Even hitting the track with a Hi/lo pass filter and some compression, it sounds like shit. Put a backing track up and it just sounds like I am listing to a guitar played through an AM radio sitting on top of the rest of the mix, no matter what I do with double tracking, panning, EQ, etc.

If the mic is picking up a tone I like and is capable of feeding it through the interface back to my headphones, I am thinking the problem has to be somewhere between my shitty computer and my settings in Reaper. I feel like I am so close to getting something I am happy with, but just have that one final frustrating hurdle to overcome.

Maybe you are hearing the amp blaring through your headphones, giving the illusion of deeper tone, when it is really just buzzy crap on the mic.

rear naked wrote:Maybe you are hearing the amp blaring through your headphones, giving the illusion of deeper tone, when it is really just buzzy crap on the mic.

What sample rate are you working at?

It would be naive for me to think that there's no bleeding through the headphones, but that's why I put together the foam barrier and why I am also borrowing my friend's Beyerdynamic headphones. While I am sure there is still bleed, it sounds good whenever I put the phones on, step outside of the room and close the door. Obviously not like a studio, but a lot better than it was sounding. Hell, with my Sony headphones it sounds a whole lot better than it once did, so the changes have helped slightly.

As far as the sample rate, I have tried both the 44.1kHz and 96kHz at 24 Bits with the advanced driver enabled on the interface. I really can't hear a discernible difference between 44.1kHz and 96kHz with the interface.

Are you listening back to the recorded track on the same headphones?

Yeah. I've tried the Beyers, my Sony stereo headphones, some cheapo Sony earbuds and my computer monitors. The Sony earbuds actually sound the best for the recorded track which kind of surprises me because they are so cheap.

You're saying that the recorded tone played through Beyers sounds different than the direct monitor through the Beyers? This should not be so.

Try monitoring through the DAW.

Also, turn your gatdamn amp down if it is blaring while you are setting mic position so you can trust what you heard through the phones