Guitar Gear Forum

The main thing I'm having trouble with is space. If that makes sense. I record everything on a seperate track.. bass on one.. 2 for rhythm.. l and r.. drums are midi.. usually like you would see a drum kit is where I try to place each piece.. I mic everything except drums. No DI.

If you listen to the drum jam we just did with fretless's drum track, everything seems to mush together.. I cant get the bass as solid as I want, too boomy. The guitars are overlapped, but they get in each others way. It gets muddy to me. Maybe I need to use compression?

I've tried EQ tricks, like making sure the bass does not get in the way of the kick, etc.. but I'm not doing something right. I've seen on here maybe starting at the master, and work your way backwards.. as long you have a solid recording, and then EQ and adjust track volumes as needed. What do you guys do?

https://soundcloud.com/user-437728583/no-life

I love doing these drum jams for practice and recording experience.. I have a ton of my own tunes written but I want to make sure they don't sound like shit.. You guys have this stuff down to a science, I'll take any help I can get!!

Are you recording your individual tracks at -20db or so?
Helps with later summing.

Other than that - eq, low-, and high-pass filters on tracks?

mamberg wrote:Are you recording your individual tracks at -20db or so?
Helps with later summing.

Other than that - eq, low-, and high-pass filters on tracks?

Around -12. Filter on bass, and guitars. It seems by the time everything is mixed, it looses treble, so I have to add it in the master... wrong thing to do?

I cut everything around 50hz on the track. Bass I also cut around 5k, dip around 3 or 400. Guitars I cut arount 6-7K..

I'm hearing differently. I'm hearing a subdued amount of bass. There's a little high-high end that might kinda rolled off or be perceived as rolled off somehow. Overall not bad though... I don't think you're having a lot of issues necessarily.

M.Mike LX-R wrote:I'm hearing differently. I'm hearing a subdued amount of bass. There's a little high-high end that might kinda rolled off or be perceived as rolled off somehow. Overall not bad though... I don't think you're having a lot of issues necessarily.

I guess that's what I mean by solid.. Maybe it's the frequency.. Compression maybe? IDK.. I tried a compressor on the bass track but it made it sound.. too thin.. If you havn't guessed yet, I don't know what I'm doing..

Try a simple approach first. Use only a HPF on the guitar tracks around 100hz and try getting the best mix you can get by simply using the volume sliders on the tracks. Sometimes the little more bass or high end you want is as easy as a 2db boost. Really try to get the best sound you can with as little added help as you can. Once you don't think you can make it sound any better THEN maybe start with subtractive EQ vs. boosting EQ. Try honing in on a frequency or two to cut from your tracks that help them open up. Then try compression.

Take breaks from time to time. You quickly reach a point where your ears can't tell the differences anymore.

I haven't been able to listen yet, will try to do so later, but compression is not going to make it less muddy. If anything it can cause it to sound more muddy. That said, proper compression definitely shouldn't cause your bass to sound thin. Try using some plug-ins with presets so you have a starting point. Also try parallel compression instead of direct compression on the track where you run the signal to an aux track and compress the hell out of that track and slowly pull the fader up till it's to your liking. Works great on bass and drums.

Can't comment on the rest till i listen.

Everything sounds thin and bright to me. I would get rid of all your hi and low pass filters all together. Dont just use them because youre "supposed to". Sometimes they are not needed depending on how things were recorded. This mix seriously lacks low end.

M.Mike LX-R wrote:Try a simple approach first. Use only a HPF on the guitar tracks around 100hz and try getting the best mix you can get by simply using the volume sliders on the tracks. Sometimes the little more bass or high end you want is as easy as a 2db boost. Really try to get the best sound you can with as little added help as you can. Once you don't think you can make it sound any better THEN maybe start with subtractive EQ vs. boosting EQ. Try honing in on a frequency or two to cut from your tracks that help them open up. Then try compression.

Take breaks from time to time. You quickly reach a point where your ears can't tell the differences anymore.

I'm using sennheiser HD280 phones when I do this. So what you said last might be part of it. But, for instance, the bass is almost inaudible on computer speakers, but is very loud (to me) in my phones.. it seems kinda hollow, and not solid. I'm having a hard time describing what I'm talkin' 'bout.. I guess I'm trying to compartmentalize the sounds and they are bleeding left and right of where I want 'em.. am I makin' sense?

Loins of Fire wrote:Everything sounds thin and bright to me. I would get rid of all your hi and low pass filters all together. Dont just use them because youre "supposed to". Sometimes they are not needed depending on how things were recorded. This mix seriously lacks low end.

Ok.. you nailed it. No.. Low.. End. What do I do? Leave eq alone.. no cut. Lower track volumes, then boost eq in the master? Or in each track?

MyNexRed2 wrote:

Loins of Fire wrote:Everything sounds thin and bright to me. I would get rid of all your hi and low pass filters all together. Dont just use them because youre "supposed to". Sometimes they are not needed depending on how things were recorded. This mix seriously lacks low end.

Ok.. you nailed it. No.. Low.. End. What do I do? Leave eq alone.. no cut. Lower track volumes, then boost eq in the master? Or in each track?

Its hard to say without the session in front of me. I would start by removing the hi pass from the guitars, bring them down in the mix a db or two and bump up the low end on them in the 200hz area. Then the bass needs alot more low end. I dont know what youre doing on filters for that, it seems to lack the sub frequency to me. After that focus on the master.

For the rhythm guitars you are recording two different takes right, not just doubling (copy and pasting) them? That makes a huge difference.

Thanks DUDES! I will be back!

Loins of Fire wrote:For the rhythm guitars you are recording two different takes right, not just doubling (copy and pasting) them? That makes a huge difference.

Yes, 1 take left, 1 take right. And they are getting drowned..

MyNexRed2 wrote:

Loins of Fire wrote:For the rhythm guitars you are recording two different takes right, not just doubling (copy and pasting) them? That makes a huge difference.

Yes, 1 take left, 1 take right. And they are getting drowned..

Just making sure. I dont think they are drowned at all, I think they are too loud if anything. You may be compensating for lack of low end with volume. Mixing on headphones can be tough, invest in some monitors if you can.

the drums are the main problem here by far. it will all sound like shit until you fix them. All i hear is a ride and a hat

rear naked wrote:the drums are the main problem here by far. it will all sound like shit until you fix them. All i hear is a ride and a hat

That's a common problem with drum jams from my experience. There's not much you can do to fix it, especially to a beginner.

Better? or

https://soundcloud.com/user-437728583/no-life-part-duh

7K bump in master

https://soundcloud.com/user-437728583/no-life-part-3

Added compression to master, dirt to bass, few other tweaks. If it still sounds shitty.. I quit!

https://soundcloud.com/user-437728583/no-life-4

mamberg wrote:Are you recording your individual tracks at -20db or so?
Helps with later summing.

Other than that - eq, low-, and high-pass filters on tracks?

Sorry to butt-in / hijack...

Interesting about recording at low levels - should tracks be recorded that low (-20db) all the time?

I like the 7k bump in master the most of all the clips you've posted in this thread. The drums are more prominent/not overpowered so much by the guitars. Bass playing sounds good but needs to be mixed a bit higher or if there is a compressor on there maybe it's squashing it too much?

Is there a low pass on the rhythm guitar tracks on this particular clip or did you remove it? When the rhythm guitars kick in later in the clip they are bit bright and scratchy and could use some low pass IMO. Not necessarily a lot, but just enough to take off the edge.

Again, I prefer this take over the others.

I would fire that drummer

GRIMESPACE wrote:

mamberg wrote:Are you recording your individual tracks at -20db or so?
Helps with later summing.

Other than that - eq, low-, and high-pass filters on tracks?

Sorry to butt-in / hijack...

Interesting about recording at low levels - should tracks be recorded that low (-20db) all the time?

yes

dude wheres the kick and snare!?

Do you not have those tracks?

agreed- lots more kick needed, and waaaaay less hi hat
The material could use tweaking for strategic drops in the "voices", there's constantly guitars everywhere all the time doing different things.
For starters, take your 2 primary Rhythms and pan them hard LR. No reverb, no delay on these. I hear at least 1 more rhythm somewhere in the middle slightly left? That volume is way too high. If Primary LR is at 0 on the fader, bring that supplementary guitar down to around -7 or so. Probably could pan it more to the side or just get rid of it when the lead guitar enters. Those supporting rhythm guitars also sound worlds better if you use lo/mid gain- it can really pack a punch that way. I usually go hi gain primary guitars LR then bring in mid gain guitars 3 & 4 panned around 70% LR, but ditch them during solos (only use during the epic chorus type material).

You can try a Ride the Lightning EQ on the hi gain rhythms- hi pass around 60, give a huge and narrow boost at 150 to punch the chest. Slight mid scoop anywhere between 400-700 if needed.
Bass guitar can hi pass around 40 which is accented, but give a narrow cut at 80 to give room for the kick (boost kick at 80). Bass could also use some more highs maybe around 2.7k? Or skip all of this Bass eq and just buy the Kamer plugin which is stupid simple and sounds great for cheap- it will give you the comp & eq that is ready to roll.

More kick- that should be loudest thing in a mix, not the current f*ing hi hats. lol, that drives me nuts
Hope that helps!

rear naked wrote:dude wheres the kick and snare!?

Do you not have those tracks?

I used fretless's drum track, I try to make it as loud as possible, eq the best I can, and volume, but by the time I add everything else, the master is in the red, so I start lowering the other track volumes down, so you can still hear the drums but not be overpowered. Any suggestions?