Guitar Gear Forum

Jay wrote:Well, what are you hoping to gain with replacing the OT? It might just be a moot point, and I think you might be able to find better ways to mod the amp more cost effectively for a better end result. If you still want to try a different OT, then I'm sure we can find a good alternative for you. The 22H I have has the specs on all the transformers, so we'll go with that and see what else there is.

I have no idea. People talk in generic terms about transformer upgrades being a big deal. I remembered that the JC guys had tried a 100 with O'Netics on board and it made no real difference, so nothing I'm going to buy is likely to make things better. I'll leave it as is.

The choke you picked should work fine. The Classictone parts are high quality.

Cool. I have a feeling whoever specced the Hammond originally just had one laying around, and I was putting in an order with Triode anyways so I thought it'd be nice to combine it. ClassicTone do indeed seem like excellent hardware. Triode shipped today so maybe my amp will go back in the headshell soon *gasp*

Agradeleous wrote: I've read where lot's of folks change the tubes right out the box. I'm wondering if I need to ? Since I trying to jump the gun. I've read where some like the JJ's and yet they seem to have some muddiness to them not sure if i want mud LOL from reading some more I seen where one fella took 12at7 for V1 and 12ax7's in valve 2 and 3 or what ever the third 12ax7 is called . here is the post
------------------------------------------------
"This is an old post but a buddy and I were recently working on tweaking the sound and came across the same issue when trying to get a nice chug without the mud, seems the OD bleeds a bit but the best results came from replacing v1 with something with lower gain like a 12at7 and the rest with JJ 12ax7s which reduced the mud. The headroom seemed a lot more enjoyable to the ear and sat in the mix much better but your results may vary.. Based on some other threads I took the advice to re-bias which made a huge overall change for the better. Hope that helps."
-------------------------------------------------
I spoke with tube depot great folks and they suggest the Ecc81 mullard as the 12at7 or V1 and JJ 12ax7 for the rest power tubes as well
any info would be great . I still have to wait a month though for the head it seems to be back ordered. but I have the cab yaaaaaaay

People get a little bit over-excited about the tubes, IMO. Power tubes sound exactly the same until you hit 4 or 5 on the dial, which is simply unreasonable outside of a stage. The preamp tubes make a nice but not dramatic difference (when replacing with the same type). They're tweaks, not big changes. I A/Bed my 22 against a 100 while the 100 had stock tubes and the 22 had replacements, and it was noticeable but that's all. My main suggestion is to avoid "high gain" 12AX7s like the Shuguang 9th gen/Ruby. This amp does not need more gain and it starts to get out of hand with those Ruby tubes. The Sovtek LPS in V5 is nice, the TungSol is nice, the JJ is useful to darken things.

No idea about the 12AT7 suggestion.

Welcome Agradeleous! The JJ 12DW7 would also be a good tube to try in the second spot. The JJ ECC803s is a good tube for both V1 and PI to dro pthe gain just a touch and clear up the tone. I really like the 803s in the PI, but I hear really good things about the 5751 as well. I personally don't like the 12AT7 in any spot other than FX loops and PI. The Chinese tubes are good tubes. I don't think they are higher gain relative to other tubes, but they can be gritty in certain setups. Otherwise, they tend to be very warm and articulate. In most setups, I use a TungSol followed by a few Penta C9s and then a JJ 803s in the PI.

I think I might still have a few of each of those hanging around. I'll try them out and see how it works.

GRIMESPACE wrote:

Jay wrote:Wow. Was playing the 50H last night on just the Crunch channel with a boost. It's frickin sweet! I really can't explain it, brain gone bye byes right now, but a boosted crunch is really, really nice on these amps. Hmm....

I remember FastRedPonyCar stating that he liked the boosted crunch channel a bit more than the OD channel. I can't wait to get my studio done so I can run the amp up for real so I can try that out.

What boost were you running, Jay, and how was it set up?

Let's see. I think I had crunch gain on 6 or 7 with a Boss SD1, gain at 9 o'clock tone at noon and level at 3 o'clock. I was using a JB in my LP at the time. It's a little stiffer than just the OD channel, but it has lots more bite. Think more of a boosted Marshall kind of thing, I think the EQ was all around 6, presence around 5 or so. It's definitely worth the try.

Promit wrote:

Jay wrote:Well, what are you hoping to gain with replacing the OT? It might just be a moot point, and I think you might be able to find better ways to mod the amp more cost effectively for a better end result. If you still want to try a different OT, then I'm sure we can find a good alternative for you. The 22H I have has the specs on all the transformers, so we'll go with that and see what else there is.

I have no idea. People talk in generic terms about transformer upgrades being a big deal. I remembered that the JC guys had tried a 100 with O'Netics on board and it made no real difference, so nothing I'm going to buy is likely to make things better. I'll leave it as is.

The choke you picked should work fine. The Classictone parts are high quality.

Cool. I have a feeling whoever specced the Hammond originally just had one laying around, and I was putting in an order with Triode anyways so I thought it'd be nice to combine it. ClassicTone do indeed seem like excellent hardware. Triode shipped today so maybe my amp will go back in the headshell soon *gasp*

Transformer upgrades CAN have significant improvements. I thought that FRPC had upgraded one of his JCAs, and while it make a pretty good difference, he didn't think it was worth it. For the O'Netics iron, it's just as much as the amp itself. The one advantage for the BIG JCAs is that they can use other power tubes when the PT and power amp circuitry is upgraded accordingly.

I'm still trying to find a good set of iron that is a DROP IN replacement for these amps besides the MM units, which are pretty pricey.

Promit wrote:People get a little bit over-excited about the tubes, IMO. Power tubes sound exactly the same until you hit 4 or 5 on the dial, which is simply unreasonable outside of a stage. The preamp tubes make a nice but not dramatic difference (when replacing with the same type). They're tweaks, not big changes. I A/Bed my 22 against a 100 while the 100 had stock tubes and the 22 had replacements, and it was noticeable but that's all. My main suggestion is to avoid "high gain" 12AX7s like the Shuguang 9th gen/Ruby. This amp does not need more gain and it starts to get out of hand with those Ruby tubes. The Sovtek LPS in V5 is nice, the TungSol is nice, the JJ is useful to darken things.

No idea about the 12AT7 suggestion.

I have not had much experience with EL84 tubes, but I can definitely tell you that with my amps, changing power tubes has had some dramatic differences in tone and playability, even at low volumes.

Jay wrote:I have not had much experience with EL84 tubes, but I can definitely tell you that with my amps, changing power tubes has had some dramatic differences in tone and playability, even at low volumes.

That was not my experience going from Chinese stock to JJ EL84s in the 22, at least. Perhaps different tubes (Mullard RI? NOS?) would be more substantial, I don't know.

Hello, Just joined the forum because I found some info here regarding Jet City amps. I recently bought a JCA20HV and I'm digging it. I wanted an inexpensive 18-20 watt head to mess around with and settled on the JCA20HV. I didn't want something high gain and this seemed to fit the bill by the description...ordered one without ever seeing one in the flesh and there was very little info regarding this thing on the net.

I've rolled a bunch of tubes through it and have settled on some JJ el84's in the power section. v1=anos Mullard blackburn, v2=Shuguang 12ax7 (tube store preferred series), v3=JJ ecc83 (been swapping between it and a NOS GE JAN 5751) the jury is still out on the PI.

I'm running it through a Stagecraft 1x12 cab I had custom built loaded with a Celestion G12h30 anniversary, and another 1x12 cab with a greenback. This sounds HUGE.

It's a great little amp that packs a punch. It has a lot more clean headroom than I expected and it takes pedals well. The Depth switch adds some serious "oomph". and it has an effects loop.

markophonic wrote:Hello, Just joined the forum because I found some info here regarding Jet City amps. I recently bought a JCA20HV and I'm digging it. I wanted an inexpensive 18-20 watt head to mess around with and settled on the JCA20HV. I didn't want something high gain and this seemed to fit the bill by the description...ordered one without ever seeing one in the flesh and there was very little info regarding this thing on the net.

I've rolled a bunch of tubes through it and have settled on some JJ el84's in the power section. v1=anos Mullard blackburn, v2=Shuguang 12ax7 (tube store preferred series), v3=JJ ecc83 (been swapping between it and a NOS GE JAN 5751) the jury is still out on the PI.

I'm running it through a Stagecraft 1x12 cab I had custom built loaded with a Celestion G12h30 anniversary, and another 1x12 cab with a greenback. This sounds HUGE.

It's a great little amp that packs a punch. It has a lot more clean headroom than I expected and it takes pedals well. The Depth switch adds some serious "oomph". and it has an effects loop.

That is super sexy!

Very nice!

From the looks of it, you're running it essentially clean. Are you running any pedals?

Promit wrote:

Agradeleous wrote: I've read where lot's of folks change the tubes right out the box. I'm wondering if I need to ? Since I trying to jump the gun. I've read where some like the JJ's and yet they seem to have some muddiness to them not sure if i want mud LOL from reading some more I seen where one fella took 12at7 for V1 and 12ax7's in valve 2 and 3 or what ever the third 12ax7 is called . here is the post
------------------------------------------------
"This is an old post but a buddy and I were recently working on tweaking the sound and came across the same issue when trying to get a nice chug without the mud, seems the OD bleeds a bit but the best results came from replacing v1 with something with lower gain like a 12at7 and the rest with JJ 12ax7s which reduced the mud. The headroom seemed a lot more enjoyable to the ear and sat in the mix much better but your results may vary.. Based on some other threads I took the advice to re-bias which made a huge overall change for the better. Hope that helps."
-------------------------------------------------
I spoke with tube depot great folks and they suggest the Ecc81 mullard as the 12at7 or V1 and JJ 12ax7 for the rest power tubes as well
any info would be great . I still have to wait a month though for the head it seems to be back ordered. but I have the cab yaaaaaaay

People get a little bit over-excited about the tubes, IMO. Power tubes sound exactly the same until you hit 4 or 5 on the dial, which is simply unreasonable outside of a stage. The preamp tubes make a nice but not dramatic difference (when replacing with the same type). They're tweaks, not big changes. I A/Bed my 22 against a 100 while the 100 had stock tubes and the 22 had replacements, and it was noticeable but that's all. My main suggestion is to avoid "high gain" 12AX7s like the Shuguang 9th gen/Ruby. This amp does not need more gain and it starts to get out of hand with those Ruby tubes. The Sovtek LPS in V5 is nice, the TungSol is nice, the JJ is useful to darken things.

No idea about the 12AT7 suggestion.

Thanks for welcome folks , Jay Hi pleased to meet you it's been a long time since I had a good gain sound at my finger tips as well as it being in my ownership. My over all experience is null I'm just a home or closet guitarist so I can't claim any knowledge other then I am one picky sun of a poo picker upper about sound I can't do myself .

I like great sound and still trying in my getting older age to learn . So what I guess I should do is wait till I get the head plug it up and see if it sounds good hahaha maybe also see how it sits in my mixes ( that's also a works in progress ) I have a music buddy online forum /friend who uses the blackstar 5w Ht and to me his sound is awesome after reading some about Black star nothing really bad just not having the third tube in the pre and then reading all the cool about JCA here I am but I have to confess I been looking for some time

Ok so might I ask do all folks have casual conversations here or elsewhere and is there a place you post your music ? especially JCA samples. Anyway if interested here's A Spiral link I like the sound he's worked long on it only keeps getting better http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... EG5Q#at=68

My stuff is really tame but I keep at it and it ain't great haha Song 13 is what you all might want it's few years old I think . I recorded it all through the V-amp3 LOL so the new amp will help Yaaaaaay anyway let me know were the blah blah stuff should post and I you or who ever can remove the un tech stuff.Thanks sorry if I went over board .

Ray

Ray, Even without the "better" in the link it only takes me to the YouTube homepage. Get your shit together. J/K...Welcome aboard. You are gonna like it here.

I too am a bit curious as to where I may post some JCA clips. I am fairly new to the whole recording thing so my stuff sucks pretty good. I don't have a bass and haven't fingered out how to use my guitar to record bass stuffs. Any good plug-ins for Reaper I should look into? My drumming is shit as well - I am really new to all this so I am still learning. Any and all feedback would be appreciated - if and when I get some stuff posted 'round here.

SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE!

I have a JCA22H that Mike Soldano modded to clean up the Crunch channel to create a true clean channel. I LOVE the tone but the volume differential between the two channels is huge. I have put the Gain channel barely above 1 or it significantly louder than my clean channel. Any suggestion for taming the gain channel? Something easy, I hope?

Yarbicus wrote:SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE!

I have a JCA22H that Mike Soldano modded to clean up the Crunch channel to create a true clean channel. I LOVE the tone but the volume differential between the two channels is huge. I have put the Gain channel barely above 1 or it significantly louder than my clean channel. Any suggestion for taming the gain channel? Something easy, I hope?

Wat? Couldn't you just use the master knob labeled "overdrive" and turn it counterclockwise? Maybe I am not understanding the question? Maybe something like a volume pedal? Meh, I got nothin'...

Yarbicus wrote:SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE!

I have a JCA22H that Mike Soldano modded to clean up the Crunch channel to create a true clean channel. I LOVE the tone but the volume differential between the two channels is huge. I have put the Gain channel barely above 1 or it significantly louder than my clean channel. Any suggestion for taming the gain channel? Something easy, I hope?

Taming the volume?

Sorry, I am obviously not explaining myself very well. Right now, I DO use the two separate masters to match the volume. The difference is so pronounced, however, that I have the "Crunch" master at about 75% while the "Gain" master is at about 10%. That giver very little room to breathe. I was hoping for a way to tame just the gain channel. Might not be one. Just thought I would ask.

That makes sense. I was a little confused at first but now I understand. Must have been one hell of a mod to change the amp that much...And I am not that experienced with these but I don't know if there is a way to do what you are asking without doing more mods? Hopefully some of the more smarterer persons will chime in...

Meelocheck wrote:Ray, Even without the "better" in the link it only takes me to the YouTube homepage. Get your shit together. J/K...Welcome aboard. You are gonna like it here.

I too am a bit curious as to where I may post some JCA clips. I am fairly new to the whole recording thing so my stuff sucks pretty good. I don't have a bass and haven't fingered out how to use my guitar to record bass stuffs. Any good plug-ins for Reaper I should look into? My drumming is shit as well - I am really new to all this so I am still learning. Any and all feedback would be appreciated - if and when I get some stuff posted 'round here.

Hey Meelocheck sorry about the booboo but I just separated the (better) from the link and it works for me. As to get my stuff together that's a fault of mine I make mistakes it is not the first and won't be the last so don't be so hard, if being hard was the intent then take a deep breath and have a beer all's good in the world hard to know by reading text if not .... all cool .

If your interested http://www.twotrackmusic.com is a good place to check out and the band room is good I believe it also can do vids we'd love have ya good player or not . On the forum side you find me a lot I'm the stupid one but the other folks are great and home recording is what we all do . We all use many different Daws though since many of us started with the old Kristal Audio Engine many have upgraded to studio one which was suppose to be kristal 2 LOL or we hoped long story. We have a ton of info about plug ins and inventories of said items.

Our lead man in that ares is Smurf though many of us have a ton of info. Reaper is on the list . I switched to Reason for my main Daw Were a small community with some good folks and knowledge were more a seasoned forum then a anything goes type , Respect is high on the list . We welcome all types of music. I hope this helps

PS I pooed again on my last post and did not post my link hehehe so here that is and song 13 song is called "Swing" that's the one for the rocker stuff I do when I do it LOL it was also a monthly change song kind of a swing era interruption based off the photo.
http://www.ttmbandroom.com/Agradeleous/blog.php

Good news my amp head has shipped so hopefully Wed or Thursday. then some play time and a sample vid or track .
Later play well

Agradeleous wrote:

Meelocheck wrote:Ray, Even without the "better" in the link it only takes me to the YouTube homepage. Get your shit together. J/K...Welcome aboard. You are gonna like it here.

I too am a bit curious as to where I may post some JCA clips. I am fairly new to the whole recording thing so my stuff sucks pretty good. I don't have a bass and haven't fingered out how to use my guitar to record bass stuffs. Any good plug-ins for Reaper I should look into? My drumming is shit as well - I am really new to all this so I am still learning. Any and all feedback would be appreciated - if and when I get some stuff posted 'round here.

Hey Meelocheck sorry about the booboo but I just separated the (better) from the link and it works for me. As to get my stuff together that's a fault of mine I make mistakes it is not the first and won't be the last so don't be so hard, if being hard was the intent then take a deep breath and have a beer all's good in the world hard to know by reading text if not .... all cool .

If your interested http://www.twotrackmusic.com is a good place to check out and the band room is good I believe it also can do vids we'd love have ya good player or not . On the forum side you find me a lot I'm the stupid one but the other folks are great and home recording is what we all do . We all use many different Daws though since many of us started with the old Kristal Audio Engine many have upgraded to studio one which was suppose to be kristal 2 LOL or we hoped long story. We have a ton of info about plug ins and inventories of said items.

Our lead man in that ares is Smurf though many of us have a ton of info. Reaper is on the list . I switched to Reason for my main Daw Were a small community with some good folks and knowledge were more a seasoned forum then a anything goes type , Respect is high on the list . We welcome all types of music. I hope this helps

PS I pooed again on my last post and did not post my link hehehe so here that is and song 13 song is called "Swing" that's the one for the rocker stuff I do when I do it LOL it was also a monthly change song kind of a swing era interruption based off the photo.
http://www.ttmbandroom.com/Agradeleous/blog.php

Good news my amp head has shipped so hopefully Wed or Thursday. then some play time and a sample vid or track .
Later play well

It's tough to tell but I hope you didn't take offense to my post. If I did offend you I apologize, wasn't my intent. Anyway, I checked out the site you linked to and there is some interesting stuff there. I will definitely poke around a bit more...Thanks for the link and the info...Always looking for Reaper plug-ins or anything that might make my playing sound better

No probs meelocheck all's good . If you don't see any thing just sign up and post, were a little slow sometimes in response but I know someone will hit ya up . Using the search is like one heck of a work out LOL . Spiral the one link I posted up a bit with the blackstar also used Reaper or still does with Studio one he's a member also. So yeah pop on in hopefully you'll stay for a bit were one big family looking for more of our kin

Yarbicus wrote:Sorry, I am obviously not explaining myself very well. Right now, I DO use the two separate masters to match the volume. The difference is so pronounced, however, that I have the "Crunch" master at about 75% while the "Gain" master is at about 10%. That giver very little room to breathe. I was hoping for a way to tame just the gain channel. Might not be one. Just thought I would ask.

If you post some good quality gut shots to see what Solano's people did in your amp, somebody might be able to help you, I'm guessing they did the 39k load to ground and the srv mod, but that should not be enough to get that huge volume difference you're describing .

Cheers

Yarbicus wrote:Sorry, I am obviously not explaining myself very well. Right now, I DO use the two separate masters to match the volume. The difference is so pronounced, however, that I have the "Crunch" master at about 75% while the "Gain" master is at about 10%. That giver very little room to breathe. I was hoping for a way to tame just the gain channel. Might not be one. Just thought I would ask.

We would need more info about the changes done to it but the first thing I would check is to see if a bypass cap was added to the 2nd normal gain stage. If you can take a picture of it and post it that would be helpful. The two things I do to help with this though is add a bypass cap in the 2.2uf - 4.7uf range as well as using a 68k to ground for the clean instead of the normal 39k. I run the normal master on about 3 and the od at 1 and they are about the same volume. I posted a bunch of mods a few pages ago that included a bunch of things to clean up the normal channel.

Just picked up a used JCA50. Been lurking here for the last couple of months watching things progress.
Fired it up last night into a 2-12 celestion cab. Not sounding too good at this point, still has the original Chinese pres in it. The previous owner installed a set of JJs for the PA. Gonna start swapping the pres out to see what kind of improvement I get.

Some observations:

The OT is huge compared to most 50W amps. I don't know if this reflects a design philosophy with a full band width OT or was it a mfg decision.
The FX loop is not very flexible. Kind of a 80's design
Seems to be a well constructed PCB design with a sturdy chassis that lends itself to modding (that's why I'm here)

Any way once the tubes are upgraded I will start to tweak it. In no particular order;
Clean up the crunch channel
Move the FX to post MV (like the 22)
Add send and return controls for the loop
Maybe change up the tone stack slope and mid shift
redo the presence circuit to be a "cut/boost" like a HIWatt

This should be fun!
BTW anyone have the JCA50 PA schematic?

ironman28 wrote:Just picked up a used JCA50. Been lurking here for the last couple of months watching things progress.
Fired it up last night into a 2-12 celestion cab. Not sounding too good at this point, still has the original Chinese pres in it. The previous owner installed a set of JJs for the PA. Gonna start swapping the pres out to see what kind of improvement I get.

Some observations:

The OT is huge compared to most 50W amps. I don't know if this reflects a design philosophy with a full band width OT or was it a mfg decision.
The FX loop is not very flexible. Kind of a 80's design
Seems to be a well constructed PCB design with a sturdy chassis that lends itself to modding (that's why I'm here)

Any way once the tubes are upgraded I will start to tweak it. In no particular order;
Clean up the crunch channel
Move the FX to post MV (like the 22)
Add send and return controls for the loop
Maybe change up the tone stack slope and mid shift
redo the presence circuit to be a "cut/boost" like a HIWatt

This should be fun!
BTW anyone have the JCA50 PA schematic?

Hiya - welcome to the club!

Anxious to hear what you come up with on the mods, although tubes, bias, and depth mod will give you a huge head start. The effects loop stuff is of major interest to me - I've wanted to try out impulses for recording with the send, but was disappointed to find that it's pre-EQ. That said, I'm a little fuzzy on how you'd go about implementing the effects loop post-master volume - wouldn't that potentially overpower even line-level effects?

I actually created a 50H documentation thread over in DIY some time ago, but just realized that I never posted the schematics. That's been fixed as of a couple minutes ago. I've made links to relevant stuff (like my 50H documentation thread) on the 3rd post in this thread, but here's the shortcut anyway: JCA50H Documentation

Yarbicus wrote:Sorry, I am obviously not explaining myself very well. Right now, I DO use the two separate masters to match the volume. The difference is so pronounced, however, that I have the "Crunch" master at about 75% while the "Gain" master is at about 10%. That giver very little room to breathe. I was hoping for a way to tame just the gain channel. Might not be one. Just thought I would ask.

Hey Yarbicus - sorry I missed this

If the mod is anything like the clean switch I installed on my 50, then there is definitely going to be a huge volume difference between the channels (meaning that the modded Crunch channel master will have to be cranked up significantly relative to the OD master). Since mine is on a switch, I can go back to stock Crunch config, but the volume jumps so much that there's no way I'd be able to use it as some kind of 3-channel setup. I basically have to pick one config or the other and then balance that against the OD if I want to go back and forth while playing.

That said, I don't have as much difference in masters at you're reporting. Let's say I'm running my OD on 1.5 (in the house, mind you - haven't been in a rehearsal space yet to try this out at jam / gig volumes). I'd probably be running the Crunch around the same master setting in stock config, and then around 3-4 if I kick in the clean switch. The difference may be attributable to the extra power amp headroom (mine is a 50).

Have you called Soldano or Doug White to check with them?

PS - gut shots would certainly be cool to see...