Guitar Gear Forum

thenakedarab wrote:While I agree Z made bad choices at every turn, I'm not sure any of them were unlawful. If the state does not find a charge they can successfully prosecute, then I don't see how they can put him in jail. If M did indeed initiate the physical altercation, then Z was within his rights to defend himself with lethal force. If the roles were reversed I would feel the same way. If it's proven that Z did initiate the physical altercation, then he deserves to go to jail for assault and battery at least, and possibly 2nd degree murder.

I haven't heard anythng so far that suggests that Mr Z. had done anything illegal to cause Mr M. to attack him. I have heard however that Mr M. used racial slurs in regard to Mr Z. which suggests his motivation was, at least in part, racial. It looks at this point more like Mr M. let his attitude drive his actions and attack a man who was within the law bacause Mr M. was offended by his race.

There will be more testamony yet to come, we shall see how this all plays out.

The Anomaly wrote:
And he was told by the police on the phone, NOT to follow Trayvon.

Why do you think he continued to follow him?

The Anomaly wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

Telephant wrote:Lets be honest, that Zimmerman dude was rolling around with a gun looking for some shit to do. Following someone down the street cause you're a good samaritan? GTFO of here.

I know you won't care about the details, but he was actually asked to do this by members of his HOA, had been vandalized personally and apparently the whole neighborhood has been vandalized. He had a concealed carry permit and had a lot of L.E.O. training and classwork. The guy wasn't some vigilante asshole looking to bust a cap into someone. He was tasked to do this.

And he was told by the police on the phone, NOT to follow Trayvon.

He also has a long history of calling the police (50 times, i believe), and a violent history as well. This guy is not the model citizen you think he is.

Also, some of you guys are assuming as fact that TM provoked and/or attacked GZ. Do we know that 100%?

I'm not asking what you think, I'm asking what you know, without a doubt.

Do we know, without a doubt, that TM was 100% innocent with regards to the local break-ins?

GZ is going DOWN!

hahahaha

I don't think Trayvon's "cracker" comment on the phone is very relevant, considering the situation.

rear naked wrote:I don't think Trayvon's "cracker" comment on the phone is very relevant, considering the situation.

I think his obvious racist attitude played a part in his confrontational behavior. If Mr Z. had used a racist slur in reference to Mr M, I can assure you that it would be made revelant, at least by the media. Racists slurs are offensive no matter who utters them, and demonstrate a negative prejudice regarding others.

Casey4s wrote:

rear naked wrote:I don't think Trayvon's "cracker" comment on the phone is very relevant, considering the situation.

I think his obvious racist attitude played a part in his confrontational behavior. If Mr Z. had used a racist slur in reference to Mr M, I can assure you that it would be made revelant, at least by the media. Racists slurs are offensive no matter who utters them, and demonstrate a negative prejudice regarding others.

If Zimmerman was using racial slurs, it would be more relevant since he was the antagonist of the situation. I think Martin's actions are explained by the fact that he was being followed.

In other words, I think Martin's reaction is the same regardless of Zimmerman's race. You're following me? Fuck you. I kick your ass. (If it was Martin who initially attacked)

I think this is just one big unfortunate situation.

I don't think either of the two people made any decisions that were terribly unreasonable. They just happen to lead to Martin's death.

I seriously doubt that Zimmerman gets convicted.

I seriously doubt that Mr Z gets convicted of Murder #1 or #2, if anything I think it'll be manslaughter. But the testamony so far indicates acquital. However we havn't heard ALL the testamony yet.

Casey4s wrote:I seriously doubt that Mr Z gets convicted of Murder #1 or #2, if anything I think it'll be manslaughter. But the testamony so far indicates acquital. However we havn't heard ALL the testamony yet.

There's been a lot of debate over whether the state should have ever tried Murder 2 based on the evidence. Of course, based on the evidence I've seen so far, he never should have been indicted in the first place, imho. If Zimmerman was another black man, or Martin another Hispanic, no one would have EVER heard about this case, and anyone who says differently is full of shit, plain and simple.

I don't know how Fla. law works, or the particulars in this case--can he be convicted of anything besides what he's charged with? In other words, is it guilty or not, with no other outcome possible?

madDdog67 wrote:If Zimmerman was another black man, or Martin another Hispanic, no one would have EVER heard about this case, and anyone who says differently is full of shit, plain and simple.

Maybe, but what's your point? The circumstances are still interesting and worthy of being known. Don't stalk people with a gun. Even Batman doesn't do that.

Meelosh wrote:

madDdog67 wrote:

Casey4s wrote:If Zimmerman was another black man, or Martin another Hispanic, no one would have EVER heard about this case, and anyone who says differently is full of shit, plain and simple.

Maybe, but what's your point? The circumstances are still interesting and worthy of being known. Don't stalk people with a gun. Even Batman doesn't do that.

and everyone else (with some common sense) knows, don't throw the first punch on someone with a gun.

He may not have done anything illegal according to FL state law but following a guy around wih a gun after he was told not to? At best this is a little bitch that wanted power over people and found a situation where he could use that power "legally." No matter the outcome I think he's a little bitch and some kid died for no good reason as a result. Was Martin a saint? Probably not but he shouldn't have died because someone wanted to play cop. No reasonable person does what Zimmerman did, sorry. Wannabe cop little bitch.

'63-Strat wrote:He may not have done anything illegal according to FL state law but following a guy around wih a gun after he was told not to? At best this is a little bitch that wanted power over people and found a situation where he could use that power "legally." No matter the outcome I think he's a little bitch and some kid died for no good reason as a result. Was Martin a saint? Probably not but he shouldn't have died because someone wanted to play cop. No reasonable person does what Zimmerman did, sorry. Wannabe cop little bitch.

this...

So...what makes you think he continued to follow Martin after he was told he didn't have to?

Meelosh wrote:

madDdog67 wrote:

Casey4s wrote:If Zimmerman was another black man, or Martin another Hispanic, no one would have EVER heard about this case, and anyone who says differently is full of shit, plain and simple.

Maybe, but what's your point? The circumstances are still interesting and worthy of being known. Don't stalk people with a gun. Even Batman doesn't do that.

Sir,

You misquoted me above, I did not make that quote and have never said anyone is full of anything, thank you.

I will say that some of the folks here seem to be taking all of this personaly and allowing the trial to upset them. It is what it is and the testamony will eventually reveal what happend and why. Getting emotionaly involved seems terribly futile to me. Nobody here is on the jury so all of our opinions are meaningless. Only the jury can determine the actual outcome.

rear naked wrote:So...what makes you think he continued to follow Martin after he was told he didn't have to?

Cause he's a bitch. And that's what bitches do.

How do you know hes a bitch?

rear naked wrote:How do you know hes a bitch?

Look at him. He's a bitch.








Is he gonna be on top or on bottom once he meets Bubba, his new roommate, in ClubFed?

Casey4s wrote:Sir,

You misquoted me above, I did not make that quote and have never said anyone is full of anything, thank you.

I will say that some of the folks here seem to be taking all of this personaly and allowing the trial to upset them. It is what it is and the testamony will eventually reveal what happend and why. Getting emotionaly involved seems terribly futile to me. Nobody here is on the jury so all of our opinions are meaningless. Only the jury can determine the actual outcome.

Oh shit, my bad!

ps: I'm not upset or involved. Sometimes words sound that way on message boards and txts.

I don't think there are any saints in this case. I can't help feeling pretty creeped out by both shoot-er and shoot-ee.

When we are young hotheaded and stupid, occasionally one of us does stuff that gets the individual killed.

Trayvon wasn't wise enough to know a moderate ass-whooping is all that was called for here. Instead he went all Warrior Vengeance Mode. .It should have been a simple thrash and break. But he made a serious error in judgement. That error got him killed.

I think Zimmerman was exactly the kind of nitwit I never want to see serving as a cop. He was a provocative, biased, confrontational person. Instead of being professional (observe, report, await backup) he provoked a confrontation (even if Martin threw the first actual punch). Professionals follow a protocol to de-escalate. This was NOT hot pursuit of a violent felon caught in the act.

But unfortunately for Martin, the guy he fought was a butterball and was so threatened and overwhelmed by the fight that he felt in fear for his life.

I hope Zimmerman gets aggravated manslaughter. That seems to fit the circumstances that occurred, although I may have the interpretation slightly confused. I certainly have no warm feelings for either one of these knuckleheads. It would have been better if they were both dead, and good riddance.

Meelosh wrote:

Casey4s wrote:Sir,

You misquoted me above, I did not make that quote and have never said anyone is full of anything, thank you.

I will say that some of the folks here seem to be taking all of this personaly and allowing the trial to upset them. It is what it is and the testamony will eventually reveal what happend and why. Getting emotionaly involved seems terribly futile to me. Nobody here is on the jury so all of our opinions are meaningless. Only the jury can determine the actual outcome.

Oh shit, my bad!

ps: I'm not upset or involved. Sometimes words sound that way on message boards and txts.

No harm no foul. . .


Actually I wasn't referring to you specifically, it just seems to me that the overall mood of some of the posters is getting too emotionally involved. All the name calling etc is just silly, evaluating the evidence or testimony is one thing and needs to be done objectively not emotionally. The core issues are who if anyone did something illegal? Who initiated the violence? Why? and so forth. This thread has strayed into what some people think about the two individuals personally, which are emotional responses. Weather I like or dislike Mr M or Mr Z has no effect on what actually happened, what the law says or what the jury will ultimatly decide.

~Abstract~ wrote:

rear naked wrote:How do you know hes a bitch?

Look at him. He's a bitch.








Is he gonna be on top or on bottom once he meets Bubba, his new roommate, in ClubFed?

LOL

He's probably not going to get convicted.. He would not even be in court right now if Al Sharpton had not been sent down there by Obama to make a big deal about it..

^^^^^^

Not sure if srs tho . . .

I don't think he will get convicted either. I think I've made my peace with this whole thing. We have a justice and trial system. GZ went through it. What will be will be, and I wasn't there, so, I have about as many facts as anyone else who wasn't there, and that's what it boils down to when discussing this.