Guitar Gear Forum

nightflameauto wrote:Gateway, Yarb? You worked Gateway?

Gateway. *TWITCH*TWITCH*

marshallnoise, people disagreeing with you don't suffer from grourp think. They suffer from sanity. It's a surprisingly rare afliction, but crops up shockingly often after most any of your pronouncements as a direct backlash to your incompatibility with reality. So, you know, thanks for that.

Yup and I lasted all of six months. I just wasn't cut out for corporate America bullshit.

Ron Burgundy wrote:


What do you do for a living?

Well, he still lives in San Diego, so that gives us three options:

-Lifer in the military
-Works for Qualcomm or in some sort of supported industry to Qualcomm
-Unemployed construction worker/framer who now works retail alongside hipster transplants from fly-over states due to the downturn.

Id automatically remove option 2 judging from the craftsmanship of his posts and I'd bank real hard on option #3. Usually option #1 brings a different kind of right-wing pride that he doesn't exactly exude.

marshallnoise wrote:Loop, is Sweetwater unionized? AFAIK, Sweetwater is not a retail chain, not brick and mortar.

And to the rest of you; defending retail is just silly it was and always will be the type of job for those who are either passing through or don't want more responsibility. And retail management is just about the worst type of management position, ever.

I know, I know, I could be one of the cool kids if I just shut up and got in line and chanted "Unions are great! Death to Capitalism! Bain is evil!!! Fuck America!" Most here suffer from group think. Perfect herd mentality on display for all to see.

I usually lean right of center on almost every issue, but you really do sound like the kid whose dad was a hard line conservative and you are just rank and filing. Screaming the loudest doesn't always equal correctness.

Just because a company is unionized doesn't mean it will not exist or fail miserably. Unionization is a good thing in some areas. One of the world's most successful companies is absolutely infiltrated by the Unions (probably one of the strongest teamster based corporations around), they still post billion dollar revenues. I worked there and it was a perfect blend of mondo-publicly traded corp and well negotiated unionized labor. It's why they're #1.

A little company called UPS.

To kind of bridge the gap between marshallnoise and everyone else (even though I know it's probably doomed to fail from the beginning ) I would say that while all retail jobs are sales, not all sales jobs are retail. I dunno if I'd consider Loop's job "retail" exactly. I mean, I know that Sweetwater is a retailer, obviously, but when I think retail I think physical stores that people walk in, get stuff, and check out. Yes, Sweetwater has a little retail shop, but I dunno if I would call mail-order stuff "retail", ya know? Maybe it's just the way my mind works, haha. I mean, I spend ten hours a day selling cars and insurance, so obviously I'm in sales, but I wouldn't call my job retail either, you know?

Anyway, I'm sorry, I'll just leave this thread now

Shit article.


The market changed, and those employees are no longer needed as much. It happens in every job market. Unionize if you want, but you're better off looking for other work.

Bain Capital= Legally busting out companies.


Although, I see failure on both sides of the article. Unionizing at this point seems like just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I'm glad they pulled off the vote, I just don't see it accomplishing much.

Yarbicus wrote:Gateway was a killer from day one

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bkl3iGY6PQ[/video]

I hate if when people assume that because you work in retail, you're some kind of pimply, prepubescent, lazy freeloader.

Granted, there are those people. They usually last about 3-6 months and then leave for school/job with more hours/because they're lazy/etc.

But some of the hardest work I did, and some of the hardest working people I've met came from retail. It might be different for management, but if you work hourly in a retail store, your employers will make every opportunity to work you to the bone. It's just the nature if the beast.

Actually, if there's any sector of the economy that SHOULD be unionized to protect its workers, it should be retail.

Yarbicus wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:Gateway, Yarb? You worked Gateway?

Gateway. *TWITCH*TWITCH*

marshallnoise, people disagreeing with you don't suffer from grourp think. They suffer from sanity. It's a surprisingly rare afliction, but crops up shockingly often after most any of your pronouncements as a direct backlash to your incompatibility with reality. So, you know, thanks for that.

Yup and I lasted all of six months. I just wasn't cut out for corporate America bullshit.

I made it two years plus about six months prior as a temp. I was a material handler for most of it. And it STILL sucked my will to live to the point that one day the boss pulled us in a room, screamed obscenities at us for a couple hours, and I just got up mid-rant, said, "clearly, I'm not needed here any longer." And that was that.

He called me and asked me to come back telling me some shit about how I was one of the few that was trying. I told him that's precisely WHY I wasn't coming back.

nightflameauto wrote:I just got up mid-rant, said, "clearly, I'm not needed here any longer."

Awesome level -- expert.

nightflameauto wrote:

Yarbicus wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:Gateway, Yarb? You worked Gateway?

Gateway. *TWITCH*TWITCH*

marshallnoise, people disagreeing with you don't suffer from grourp think. They suffer from sanity. It's a surprisingly rare afliction, but crops up shockingly often after most any of your pronouncements as a direct backlash to your incompatibility with reality. So, you know, thanks for that.

Yup and I lasted all of six months. I just wasn't cut out for corporate America bullshit.

I made it two years plus about six months prior as a temp. I was a material handler for most of it. And it STILL sucked my will to live to the point that one day the boss pulled us in a room, screamed obscenities at us for a couple hours, and I just got up mid-rant, said, "clearly, I'm not needed here any longer." And that was that.

He called me and asked me to come back telling me some shit about how I was one of the few that was trying. I told him that's precisely WHY I wasn't coming back.

Yup. Not any better on the sales end. I know that feel bro.

Loop wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:Loop, is Sweetwater unionized? AFAIK, Sweetwater is not a retail chain, not brick and mortar.

And to the rest of you; defending retail is just silly it was and always will be the type of job for those who are either passing through or don't want more responsibility. And retail management is just about the worst type of management position, ever.

I know, I know, I could be one of the cool kids if I just shut up and got in line and chanted "Unions are great! Death to Capitalism! Bain is evil!!! Fuck America!" Most here suffer from group think. Perfect herd mentality on display for all to see.

We are not unionized. We are wholly owned by the owner and his wife.

We are a brick and mortar store. We also do e-sales, and phone sales.

aaaaand, despite only having one location, unlike SA and GC, we are #3 in the US.

That one location does not really mean "brick and mortar" in the sense that GC and SA are. Which I should have made more clear. You have a flagship store/warehouse.

I have read nothing but good things about Sweetwater.

Yarbicus wrote:Yup. Not any better on the sales end. I know that feel bro.

Were you there for one of the yearly "fuck you pissants" meetings? Where they brought in the high up shitholes to come speak to the individual departments, tell you for an hour and half how very important it is to get feedback and ideas from even the lowliest of employees, and then when they ask for comments any comment other than, "MY GAWD YOU GUYS ARE GENIOUSES AND WE ARE SO LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO WORK FOR YOU" turned into a lecture about what pieces of shit we all were?

Those were always fun.

Company I'm at now has BUNCHES of ex Gateway people. Including the two HR people that did my exit interview. Why two? It started with one, about halfway into my rant he goes, "hang on a sec," leaves the room and comes back with his boss. Then goes, "K, tell her what you're telling me." We still laugh about it.

i find it the most hard to believe that people actually read or respond to marshallnoise's posts


suuuuuure, no one has or ever will make a career from working retail....

FYI, I am an auditor working for a very small firm. We go out and manufacture our own business and sell ourselves and our accounting services.

And indie is dead on right. Mail order, selling new cars and selling boats are not the same thing as JC Penny, Radio Shack and Guitar Center. Being in sales is one thing; being in retail is another.

Retail blows and it always will. In fact, the reason why Sweetwater succeeds is because they sell their personal services that happen to pedal goods. They educate their SALES staff. GC has a few seasoned guys surrounded by monkeys who can barely tell the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul. They aren't in "sales." They are in retail; "Let me check and see if they have that in stock."

sleewell wrote:i find it the most hard to believe that people actually read or respond to marshallnoise's posts


suuuuuure, no one has or ever will make a career from working retail....

$8 an hour retail. A career.

marshallnoise wrote:FYI, I am an auditor working for a very small firm. We go out and manufacture our own business and sell ourselves and our accounting services.

Seems legit. I've never personally heard or known of an auditor that manufactures anything, but legit nonetheless.

I think the main problem with GC is that they are insisting on a business model that is no longer viable. I haven't bought anything other than strings/picks/straps/cables in my local GC in about a decade. Most of my big purchases are either done online or from private parties or from specialized dealers. There is no need to have a GC in every town anymore.

Musical Instrument sales really moved online, especially the Line 6/Schecter type of gear GC specializes at. Maybe for a more high-end boutique market a (small) guitar shop is a good idea, but for anything else, people will buy from places like Sweetwater, MF, AMS etc...

So these workers are working a commission-only job in a non-competitive, dying business model. Of course, that won't work well for them. And no amount of unionization will change that. The business model needs to be reviewed completely. They have too many stores, which are too big and too overstaffed. The market does not support that anymore. If more than half of your industry sales went online and your store is still as big as it used to be, that's a pretty obvious error to spot.

Lloyd Blankfein wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:FYI, I am an auditor working for a very small firm. We go out and manufacture our own business and sell ourselves and our accounting services.

Seems legit. I've never personally heard or known of an auditor that manufactures anything, but legit nonetheless.

GuitarBilly wrote:I think the main problem with GC is that they are insisting on a business model that is no longer viable. I haven't bought anything other than strings/picks/straps/cables in my local GC in about a decade. Most of my big purchases are either done online or from private parties or from specialized dealers. There is no need to have a GC in every town anymore.

Musical Instrument sales really moved online, especially the Line 6/Schecter type of gear GC specializes at. Maybe for a more high-end boutique market a (small) guitar shop is a good idea, but for anything else, people will buy from places like Sweetwater, MF, AMS etc...

So these workers are working a commission-only job in a non-competitive, dying business model. Of course, that won't work well for them. And no amount of unionization will change that. The business model needs to be reviewed completely. They have too many stores, which are too big and too overstaffed. The market does not support that anymore. If more than half of your industry sales went online and your store is still as big as it used to be, that's a pretty obvious error to spot.

But don't people deserve to work in a failing business model, indefinitely, at a higher wage with less expectations? I thought this was America!!

marshallnoise wrote:

You sound like the high school janitor that tries to bill his title as, "Botanical and Real Estate efficiency advisor" in the yearbook.

what in the blue fuck do you do for a living?

GuitarBilly wrote:I think the main problem with GC is that they are insisting on a business model that is no longer viable. I haven't bought anything other than strings/picks/straps/cables in my local GC in about a decade. Most of my big purchases are either done online or from private parties or from specialized dealers. There is no need to have a GC in every town anymore.

Musical Instrument sales really moved online, especially the Line 6/Schecter type of gear GC specializes at. Maybe for a more high-end boutique market a (small) guitar shop is a good idea, but for anything else, people will buy from places like Sweetwater, MF, AMS etc...

So these workers are working a commission-only job in a non-competitive, dying business model. Of course, that won't work well for them. And no amount of unionization will change that. The business model needs to be reviewed completely. They have too many stores, which are too big and too overstaffed. The market does not support that anymore. If more than half of your industry sales went online and your store is still as big as it used to be, that's a pretty obvious error to spot.

We kind of agree. Lets throw a party.



I havn't been to a guitar center in a while, and dont really know how they do business now, so take that into consideration...but I dont think they are insisting on their same old business model. are they? The point of the article is that they shifted their strategy to move more in line with the online sales paradigm. It looks like they are trying to adapt...with the result being that the Guitar Center "floor" employee is just not needed to the same degree. The fact that these low level employees are getting low pay is not necessarily indicative of a failing strategy. It is indicative of a poor choice of employment at this point in time.

Lloyd Blankfein wrote:

marshallnoise wrote:

You sound like the high school janitor that tries to bill his title as, "Botanical and Real Estate efficiency advisor" in the yearbook.

what in the blue fuck do you do for a living?

How many times do I have to tell you that I am an Auditor? Are you retarded?

rear naked wrote:

GuitarBilly wrote:I think the main problem with GC is that they are insisting on a business model that is no longer viable. I haven't bought anything other than strings/picks/straps/cables in my local GC in about a decade. Most of my big purchases are either done online or from private parties or from specialized dealers. There is no need to have a GC in every town anymore.

Musical Instrument sales really moved online, especially the Line 6/Schecter type of gear GC specializes at. Maybe for a more high-end boutique market a (small) guitar shop is a good idea, but for anything else, people will buy from places like Sweetwater, MF, AMS etc...

So these workers are working a commission-only job in a non-competitive, dying business model. Of course, that won't work well for them. And no amount of unionization will change that. The business model needs to be reviewed completely. They have too many stores, which are too big and too overstaffed. The market does not support that anymore. If more than half of your industry sales went online and your store is still as big as it used to be, that's a pretty obvious error to spot.

We kind of agree. Lets throw a party.



I havn't been to a guitar center in a while, and dont really know how they do business now, so take that into consideration...but I dont think they are insisting on their same old business model. are they? The point of the article is that they shifted their strategy to move more in line with the online sales paradigm. It looks like they are trying to adapt...with the result being that the Guitar Center "floor" employee is just not needed to the same degree. The fact that these low level employees are getting low pay is not necessarily indicative of a failing strategy. It is indicative of a poor choice of employment at this point in time.

FUCK YOU IT IS A CAREER CHOICE THAT DEMANDS THAT IT IS HONORED WITH HIGHER PAY DAMNIT DON"T YOU UNDERSTAND!!!>:>

marshallnoise wrote:

sleewell wrote:$8 an hour retail. A career.

The lowest paid of my 47 employees makes $10 an hour. On day 1. Keep digging.