Guitar Gear Forum

***1776*** wrote:Portnoys a bit of a blowhard at times but hes making some valid points

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/329 ... -to-prison

Yeah he's not wrong. Especially considering in 2016 Robinhood condemned other stock apps for doing the same thing they're doing today. What a bunch of rigged bullshit.

I hope all those Reddit buyers sold all their GameStop yesterday.

BroSlinger wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:
Does grandma really play in the short market though?

The point here I think is that this reveals what a fugazi the market is, where you can see how easily manipulatable valuation is. So, fuck grandma... temporarily... it's not her fault but she hired managers who are part of an institution that colludes to drive speculation through industry talking heads and the media in the direction they want.

What's the difference between them driving speculation off a cliff to kill Gamestop (which also really hurts many a more grandmas on Main St.) and a group of organized average Joes driving the speculation in the opposite direction just the same?

It's titanically ironic, and it was fair, fucking, play.

If she invested in that hedge fund, then yes, she did play the short market. Not sure if she read the prospectus though. Suitability to invest into a hedge fend isn't super stringent. Remember all of the regular folks who got fucked by Bernie Madoff. These regular folks are no different. They just got fucked by market manipulators instead of the manager. (even though they were indirectly fucked by the manager making a stupid bet on naked shorts)

TO BE FAIR (I love Letterkenny).....Every investor should know the risks going in. It's in the prospectus. If you lose everything, you shouldn't have had it all in one basket.

it was fair, fucking, play. You're right in theory, but check my above post about what the SEC says about market manipulation. Not that I agree either way, but wait for the enforcement agencies to get involved.

The Bernie Madoff thruline is perfect. It further highlights the issue. Nobody cared that there were some little guys who got screwed over in that scheme. The real reason that was a story was because Madoff had rich and powerful people who got screwed. It would have never been a story, and he would have never gone to jail if it were only little guys. That's the truth.

What this whole issue highlights is the assymetry of justice that exists, a two-tier system of reaction and enforcement - one for the little guy and one for the financial elites. It's RICH AF that now you're getting financial elites asking for SEC action.

The fucking CEO of NASDAQ was on a news show playing my favorite tune on the world's smallest violin.

Badaba-baBAaaa.... "I'm lovin' it"

I do enjoy watching the mega rich cry and wail.

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

BroSlinger wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:
Does grandma really play in the short market though?

The point here I think is that this reveals what a fugazi the market is, where you can see how easily manipulatable valuation is. So, fuck grandma... temporarily... it's not her fault but she hired managers who are part of an institution that colludes to drive speculation through industry talking heads and the media in the direction they want.

What's the difference between them driving speculation off a cliff to kill Gamestop (which also really hurts many a more grandmas on Main St.) and a group of organized average Joes driving the speculation in the opposite direction just the same?

It's titanically ironic, and it was fair, fucking, play.

If she invested in that hedge fund, then yes, she did play the short market. Not sure if she read the prospectus though. Suitability to invest into a hedge fend isn't super stringent. Remember all of the regular folks who got fucked by Bernie Madoff. These regular folks are no different. They just got fucked by market manipulators instead of the manager. (even though they were indirectly fucked by the manager making a stupid bet on naked shorts)

TO BE FAIR (I love Letterkenny).....Every investor should know the risks going in. It's in the prospectus. If you lose everything, you shouldn't have had it all in one basket.

it was fair, fucking, play. You're right in theory, but check my above post about what the SEC says about market manipulation. Not that I agree either way, but wait for the enforcement agencies to get involved.

The Bernie Madoff thruline is perfect. It further highlights the issue. Nobody cared that there were some little guys who got screwed over in that scheme. The real reason that was a story was because Madoff had rich and powerful people who got screwed. It would have never been a story, and he would have never gone to jail if it were only little guys. That's the truth.

What this whole issue highlights is the assymetry of justice that exists, a two-tier system of reaction and enforcement - one for the little guy and one for the financial elites. It's RICH AF that now you're getting financial elites asking for SEC action.

The fucking CEO of NASDAQ was on a news show playing my favorite tune on the world's smallest violin.

Badaba-baBAaaa.... "I'm lovin' it"

I believe the saying is "a kicked dog hollers".

Elizabeth Warren was just rambling on CNBC and basically did not say much about the issue at hand but more of political ideology and taxes, not sure why they bothered with her when she didnt answer anything on the topic. Ted Cruz and AOC actually agreed on something with the topic, the politicians seem to never waste a opportunity to get attention or on TV

I just hope some dopey knee jerk law does not come out after all this that actually ends up hurting the little guy

I really hope the little guys don't get fucked here but I think they're going to.

These guys have had enough time to cover their shorts; at this point I'd bet that a shit ton of the guys that own this stock are bigger investors by now.

Serious question for people who understand this better than I do.
Is there a legit non rent seeking use for shorting?
Why is this even a thing?

Explain to me like I’m 5, I’m an engineer it a finance guy so all this stuff has always felt like games the rich and powerful play and try to shroud in enough “ you wouldn’t understand it’s so complex” hand waving that I have a hard time being charitable.

K-Bizzle wrote:Serious question for people who understand this better than I do.
Is there a legit non rent seeking use for shorting?
Why is this even a thing?

Explain to me like I’m 5, I’m an engineer it a finance guy so all this stuff has always felt like games the rich and powerful play and try to shroud in enough “ you wouldn’t understand it’s so complex” hand waving that I have a hard time being charitable.

They do it because in the long run it's literally billions of dollars. Most people want to buy a stock they believe in, a stock that's going to make them money. These people buy stock they believe is going to fail, and bet accordingly. They're making $ on speculation, just in the other direction.

No I get what shorting is in simplistic terms, I just do not see how it is useful to our economic system aside from a way for some groups to profit off the failure of other groups.
Is there any purpose/use aside from just treating the stock market like dog track?

Treating the stock market like a dog track IS the entire purpose.... because, it IS a dog track.

Not really. They'll use it as a hedge against the risk of a long term position in a same security or something like it. They have to balance things out in the end, you can't just walk up to your billionaire investors and be all 'sorry mate, crapped out on longs, my bad'

Could be considered useful I guess....Geno was talking about Grandma and the hedge funds earlier; it's additional capital when it works, and if they don't just take it as a profit.

They SAY they need to do this to maintain liquidity in options markets.

Sell a $10 stock for $4, you got $6 to play with; if you reinvest $3 you could take the remaining $3 as your earnings or put it back in for your investors. Which do you think they're choosing to do lol

What SHOULD be illegal and I hope after this shit is over and some investigations get done to make illegal are the naked shorts, that's some fucked up shit and is why they're where they are now.

My related story: Last month I opened a RH account and received a free stock - AMC, worth around $1.80. As I was messing with other stocks, I kept noticing AMC going up from $2, to $3, to $4, and two days ago, when it was at $5, I bought $1K's worth. Later that night I was shocked to find that it went up to $8! The next morning, it was above $10 and I didn't know what to do. I was busy working and didn't catch the $20 high, and put in a limit sell for $20 hoping it would hit it again. It came 12 cents shy of it before the market closed . . .

This morning, I saw it tank down to $7. But still, I'm up about 40% on my $1K - haha . . . When it was back up at $10 later in the day, I thought about selling it, but I decided to sit on it. It went up to $15 during after-hours.

Now I'm reading all this news of how AMC was part of all this GameStop drama, and I'm like, "wtf . . ."

Weird how a decision based on FOMO, completely independent and ignorant of what was to come, indirectly involved me in the news of the day.

K-Bizzle wrote::lol:
No I get what shorting is in simplistic terms, I just do not see how it is useful to our economic system aside from a way for some groups to profit off the failure of other groups.
Is there any purpose/use aside from just treating the stock market like dog track?

The purpose, in theory, is that large investors with good research resources might be finding out that the fundamentals of a company are a lot worse than the market currently believes. "Shorting" the stock is (in addition to future profit) telling the market "we believe this stock is overvalued enough to put money up against it", which drives more correct valuations, and in some cases even drives unhealthy companies out of the market entirely.

All of this assumes a rational market, which it clearly isn't nearly all of the time. It's much quicker to ride trends to highs and lows than to actually do proper fundamental analysis and invest on real value.

For myself, I missed all this Gamestop/AMC stuff until yesterday. I watched Gamestop tank with interest, and read how Robinhood basically killed themselves by blocking those stocks. I have been investing in the past year (the Corona low was a great time to get in). I've got a bunch of ETFs with most of my money, and though I was late, I did make about 30% on Tesla, and a little-known stock called Materialise that is very volatile. Now, I've worked for these guys, I know they are serious. The valuations are stupid, but fundamentally they are healthy and I don't mind taking a punt.

The one HUGE rule I have though is that any time I'm 15% up on my original position, I sell 85% of the stock. I often rebuy if they fall more than 5%-10% afterwards (depends on what the rest of the market is doing).
Psychologically, it means that most of my more risky positions are now "free" because of the huge Corona swings - I've already made my money back, what I have left over was my profit.

Still, would have loved to have had a crystal ball and bought Tesla back last march, sold it early this month and then bought gamestop to sell the day before yesterday. I'd be buying a lot of Mayones guitars

I've got loads invested in the cock market.

I have a feeling 'Some people did something' and they may go to jail for it

Dick Butter Nuts wrote:I've got loads invested in the cock market.

madkeithv wrote:

K-Bizzle wrote::lol:
No I get what shorting is in simplistic terms, I just do not see how it is useful to our economic system aside from a way for some groups to profit off the failure of other groups.
Is there any purpose/use aside from just treating the stock market like dog track?

The purpose, in theory, is that large investors with good research resources might be finding out that the fundamentals of a company are a lot worse than the market currently believes. "Shorting" the stock is (in addition to future profit) telling the market "we believe this stock is overvalued enough to put money up against it", which drives more correct valuations, and in some cases even drives unhealthy companies out of the market entirely.

All of this assumes a rational market, which it clearly isn't nearly all of the time. It's much quicker to ride trends to highs and lows than to actually do proper fundamental analysis and invest on real value.

Ok that is what I was looking for, thank you.

All the financial babble around the web the past few days is making me want to watch that depressing as fuck movie "The Big Short" again. It's a perfect snapshot of how fucked up the entire stock exchange system can be.

K-Bizzle wrote:

madkeithv wrote:

K-Bizzle wrote::lol:
No I get what shorting is in simplistic terms, I just do not see how it is useful to our economic system aside from a way for some groups to profit off the failure of other groups.
Is there any purpose/use aside from just treating the stock market like dog track?

The purpose, in theory, is that large investors with good research resources might be finding out that the fundamentals of a company are a lot worse than the market currently believes. "Shorting" the stock is (in addition to future profit) telling the market "we believe this stock is overvalued enough to put money up against it", which drives more correct valuations, and in some cases even drives unhealthy companies out of the market entirely.

All of this assumes a rational market, which it clearly isn't nearly all of the time. It's much quicker to ride trends to highs and lows than to actually do proper fundamental analysis and invest on real value.

Ok that is what I was looking for, thank you.

Awesome! Extremely helpful for me, too.

Yup. Short analysts are necessary in finding bubbles that are going to pop too. It's a necessary job, but has become more and more gamed.

Ostinato Rubato wrote:Yup. Short analysts are necessary in finding bubbles that are going to pop too. It's a necessary job, but has become more and more gamed.

Yes, it also can create liquidity in markets at times, so it can serve a legit purpose

I have no issue with legal shorting but its kinda glorious when shorts have to cover in a panic

Went back in for one more share for funsies. See what happens.

Robinhood blocking the purchase of this stock while only allowing the sale of this stock should result it Robinhood no longer being in business.

That was an outright betrayal and obvious gaming of the system back in favor of the select few in our capital market, which is supposed to be a free capital market for all intents and purposes where the purchase and sale channels are both open.

We are watching how quickly roaches scurry to regroup when the light comes on.

Despicable.

This whole David vs. Goliath theme was actually Goliath playing David for a sucker.