Guitar Gear Forum

GuitarBilly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:I'm 100% "Not Really Sure" - because I'm not willingly giving a DNA sample to a commercial interest to exploit or lose in a data breach...

what do you think could happen? Genuinely curious.
We leave DNA samples at commercial interests all the time.. gyms, restaurants, barber shops, doctors offices, even your trash. Anytime you discard something that was in contact with your saliva, sweat, hair, blood etc that's a DNA sample right there. Anyone interested in obtaining your DNA could obtain a sample easily and get it profiled in a day.

Only criminals have something to fear.

Well, I think privacy concerns are valid. I am just pointing out how easy it is to get bio material for a DNA sample these days...

I really believe that only criminals have something to worry about.

The only other issue I can think of is... if Health Insurance companies get your DNA they can asses risk and jack up your rates or, they can dump you if your heath risks are high.
A lot of Doctors would be happy to a sample of your DNA along with their insurance payment submissions.
I suppose there are other privacy issues?

GuitarBilly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:I'm 100% "Not Really Sure" - because I'm not willingly giving a DNA sample to a commercial interest to exploit or lose in a data breach...

what do you think could happen? Genuinely curious.
We leave DNA samples at commercial interests all the time.. gyms, restaurants, barber shops, doctors offices, even your trash. Anytime you discard something that was in contact with your saliva, sweat, hair, blood etc that's a DNA sample right there. Anyone interested in obtaining your DNA could obtain a sample easily and get it profiled in a day.

I understand that if someone really wanted to, they could get your DNA rather easily. Most, however, wouldn't be able to do much with it unless they were some kind of law enforcement or governmental agency. Unless you're being actively investigated, the chances of someone being able to leverage it are remote. The testing companies, however, have all the tools to catalog significant aspects of your DNA that include far more than genetic traits that identify ethnicity and origin (familial links, genetic anomalies, disposition for future illnesses, etc.). The agreements that you sign when allowing them to run the tests are certainly not in your favor from a privacy standpoint, either. There are already numerous reports of those companies allowing healthcare and insurance companies to mine the data, supposedly under the guise of improving healthcare. It's unlikely that their motives are completely pure and, if they chose, they would have the data needed to determine who should be denied health coverage. Plus, there's the almost inevitable data breach where the DNA information for millions of people gets stolen and sold. I'm not overly paranoid, but there just seems to be too many ways that providing a DNA sample could bite you in the ass and the only thing you get from it is a marginally-accurate report on your ancestry. It would be interesting to see the results, but I just don't think it's worth the risk. Just my .02...

ajaxlepinski wrote:

GuitarBilly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:I'm 100% "Not Really Sure" - because I'm not willingly giving a DNA sample to a commercial interest to exploit or lose in a data breach...

what do you think could happen? Genuinely curious.
We leave DNA samples at commercial interests all the time.. gyms, restaurants, barber shops, doctors offices, even your trash. Anytime you discard something that was in contact with your saliva, sweat, hair, blood etc that's a DNA sample right there. Anyone interested in obtaining your DNA could obtain a sample easily and get it profiled in a day.

Only criminals have something to fear.

Shhhhhh

IndyWS6 wrote:

GuitarBilly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:I'm 100% "Not Really Sure" - because I'm not willingly giving a DNA sample to a commercial interest to exploit or lose in a data breach...

what do you think could happen? Genuinely curious.
We leave DNA samples at commercial interests all the time.. gyms, restaurants, barber shops, doctors offices, even your trash. Anytime you discard something that was in contact with your saliva, sweat, hair, blood etc that's a DNA sample right there. Anyone interested in obtaining your DNA could obtain a sample easily and get it profiled in a day.

I understand that if someone really wanted to, they could get your DNA rather easily. Most, however, wouldn't be able to do much with it unless they were some kind of law enforcement or governmental agency. Unless you're being actively investigated, the chances of someone being able to leverage it are remote. The testing companies, however, have all the tools to catalog significant aspects of your DNA that include far more than genetic traits that identify ethnicity and origin (familial links, genetic anomalies, disposition for future illnesses, etc.). The agreements that you sign when allowing them to run the tests are certainly not in your favor from a privacy standpoint, either. There are already numerous reports of those companies allowing healthcare and insurance companies to mine the data, supposedly under the guise of improving healthcare. It's unlikely that their motives are completely pure and, if they chose, they would have the data needed to determine who should be denied health coverage. Plus, there's the almost inevitable data breach where the DNA information for millions of people gets stolen and sold. I'm not overly paranoid, but there just seems to be too many ways that providing a DNA sample could bite you in the ass and the only thing you get from it is a marginally-accurate report on your ancestry. It would be interesting to see the results, but I just don't think it's worth the risk. Just my .02...

Yeah I can see that, although most insurance companies require medical exams prior to enrollment, so they already have access to that information if they want to use it (and I am sure they do use it).

for the record, I have no interest in doing this at least until there are some real benefits like accurate disease prediction/prevention for things like Alzheimer's, cancers etc...

I mean, I have very little doubt I am Brazilian lol

GuitarBilly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:

GuitarBilly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:I'm 100% "Not Really Sure" - because I'm not willingly giving a DNA sample to a commercial interest to exploit or lose in a data breach...

what do you think could happen? Genuinely curious.
We leave DNA samples at commercial interests all the time.. gyms, restaurants, barber shops, doctors offices, even your trash. Anytime you discard something that was in contact with your saliva, sweat, hair, blood etc that's a DNA sample right there. Anyone interested in obtaining your DNA could obtain a sample easily and get it profiled in a day.

I understand that if someone really wanted to, they could get your DNA rather easily. Most, however, wouldn't be able to do much with it unless they were some kind of law enforcement or governmental agency. Unless you're being actively investigated, the chances of someone being able to leverage it are remote. The testing companies, however, have all the tools to catalog significant aspects of your DNA that include far more than genetic traits that identify ethnicity and origin (familial links, genetic anomalies, disposition for future illnesses, etc.). The agreements that you sign when allowing them to run the tests are certainly not in your favor from a privacy standpoint, either. There are already numerous reports of those companies allowing healthcare and insurance companies to mine the data, supposedly under the guise of improving healthcare. It's unlikely that their motives are completely pure and, if they chose, they would have the data needed to determine who should be denied health coverage. Plus, there's the almost inevitable data breach where the DNA information for millions of people gets stolen and sold. I'm not overly paranoid, but there just seems to be too many ways that providing a DNA sample could bite you in the ass and the only thing you get from it is a marginally-accurate report on your ancestry. It would be interesting to see the results, but I just don't think it's worth the risk. Just my .02...

Yeah I can see that, although most insurance companies require medical exams prior to enrollment, so they already have access to that information if they want to use it (and I am sure they do use it).

for the record, I have no interest in doing this at least until there are some real benefits like accurate disease prediction/prevention for things like Alzheimer's, cancers etc...

I mean, I have very little doubt I am Brazilian lol

My insurance has always been through work, and they obviously have access to all of my medical records - and use it, but they have never performed any DNA tests to my knowledge. I wonder if that is that something that is routinely done for private insurance?

I'm of Scandinavian/Swedish descent (I'm a Viking, bitches! ), but it would be interesting to see what an ancestry test might reveal, even if they aren't 100% accurate...

well if you are getting insurance through work, you are getting a group rate so it doesn't matter much.

But if you apply for insurance as an individual a medical exam is almost always required. I am not sure if they run DNA but they certainly collect enough bio samples to do so and I am sure there is a line somewhere in the contract's 10 pages of fine print that authorizes them to run it if they want.

GuitarBilly wrote:well if you are getting insurance through work, you are getting a group rate so it doesn't matter much.

But if you apply for insurance as an individual a medical exam is almost always required. I am not sure if they run DNA but they certainly collect enough bio samples to do so and I am sure there is a line somewhere in the contract's 10 pages of fine print that authorizes them to run it if they want.

Without question... Like all fine print, it's written in a way that is nearly impossible to understand and you have to agree to it all, even if parts are objectionable. It's almost never to your benefit and you literally have no choice. Seems fair

IndyWS6 wrote:I'm 100% "Not Really Sure" - because I'm not willingly giving a DNA sample to a commercial interest to exploit or lose in a data breach...

I'm with you there. The only reason I have an idea about mine is because my parents both did theirs. It is fun though.

Minority report type shit will some day go down and they will use your stupid heritage tests .

I would worry about my company/insurance getting ahold of my info (if it contained any detrimental health info) - as we are fairly small company - but self-insured.

Insurance still runs through Aetna - but the actual costs are picked up by out company
(not sure exactly how it works - but the insurance is tied much more directly to our own pool of people)

If they had info that certain employees were likely to develop conditions that would lead to expensive payouts - I'm sure they would move to minimize those costs.
I already have my concerns that they have weeded out senior employees for that very reason already (although not necessarly based on genetic info).

Rubato just set himself up for a bunch of paternity claims.

As tin foil hat as it might seem at first glance, Indy has a point about the justice system having access to your DNA profile...

"A Rexburg woman, who is an avid genealogist, took her dad’s DNA and unwittingly helped investigators find distant cousin Joseph DeAngelo, who is suspected in killing 11 people and raping 50 women in California from 1978 to 1986. The woman spoke on condition of anonymity, and the Standard Journal like the Associated Press, is not releasing her name.

DeAngelo’s genetic markers matched the woman’s father’s “YDNA” indicating a possible connection to the serial killer. According to familytreedna.com, YDNA passes from father to son and is only found in the direct paternal line."

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/east-idaho-link-to-golden-state-killer-dna-test-helps/article_7f37fb6a-1cd0-5b5a-a627-a7a5bc29f17a.html

itchyfingers wrote:As tin foil hat as it might seem at first glance, Indy has a point about the justice system having access to your DNA profile...

"A Rexburg woman, who is an avid genealogist, took her dad’s DNA and unwittingly helped investigators find distant cousin Joseph DeAngelo, who is suspected in killing 11 people and raping 50 women in California from 1978 to 1986. The woman spoke on condition of anonymity, and the Standard Journal like the Associated Press, is not releasing her name.

DeAngelo’s genetic markers matched the woman’s father’s “YDNA” indicating a possible connection to the serial killer. According to familytreedna.com, YDNA passes from father to son and is only found in the direct paternal line."

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/east-idaho-link-to-golden-state-killer-dna-test-helps/article_7f37fb6a-1cd0-5b5a-a627-a7a5bc29f17a.html

This has happened twice out here now. Fine by me.

Rock Hardness wrote:

itchyfingers wrote:As tin foil hat as it might seem at first glance, Indy has a point about the justice system having access to your DNA profile...

"A Rexburg woman, who is an avid genealogist, took her dad’s DNA and unwittingly helped investigators find distant cousin Joseph DeAngelo, who is suspected in killing 11 people and raping 50 women in California from 1978 to 1986. The woman spoke on condition of anonymity, and the Standard Journal like the Associated Press, is not releasing her name.

DeAngelo’s genetic markers matched the woman’s father’s “YDNA” indicating a possible connection to the serial killer. According to familytreedna.com, YDNA passes from father to son and is only found in the direct paternal line."

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/east-idaho-link-to-golden-state-killer-dna-test-helps/article_7f37fb6a-1cd0-5b5a-a627-a7a5bc29f17a.html

This has happened twice out here now. Fine by me.

I'm good with it too!

The future is going to suck so hard. Facial recognition tracking your every move. DNA stuff. No privacy. I feel bad for future generations.

We're all going to have tracking chips implanted that can be remotely exploded.

IndyWS6 wrote:

GuitarBilly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:I'm 100% "Not Really Sure" - because I'm not willingly giving a DNA sample to a commercial interest to exploit or lose in a data breach...

what do you think could happen? Genuinely curious.
We leave DNA samples at commercial interests all the time.. gyms, restaurants, barber shops, doctors offices, even your trash. Anytime you discard something that was in contact with your saliva, sweat, hair, blood etc that's a DNA sample right there. Anyone interested in obtaining your DNA could obtain a sample easily and get it profiled in a day.

I understand that if someone really wanted to, they could get your DNA rather easily. Most, however, wouldn't be able to do much with it unless they were some kind of law enforcement or governmental agency. Unless you're being actively investigated, the chances of someone being able to leverage it are remote. The testing companies, however, have all the tools to catalog significant aspects of your DNA that include far more than genetic traits that identify ethnicity and origin (familial links, genetic anomalies, disposition for future illnesses, etc.). The agreements that you sign when allowing them to run the tests are certainly not in your favor from a privacy standpoint, either. There are already numerous reports of those companies allowing healthcare and insurance companies to mine the data, supposedly under the guise of improving healthcare. It's unlikely that their motives are completely pure and, if they chose, they would have the data needed to determine who should be denied health coverage. Plus, there's the almost inevitable data breach where the DNA information for millions of people gets stolen and sold. I'm not overly paranoid, but there just seems to be too many ways that providing a DNA sample could bite you in the ass and the only thing you get from it is a marginally-accurate report on your ancestry. It would be interesting to see the results, but I just don't think it's worth the risk. Just my .02...

Agreed, not worth the risk.

I'm not too worried about someone from Russia or China traveling to Minnesota to scrape DNA out of my garbage can.

ajaxlepinski wrote:We're all going to have tracking chips implanted that can be remotely exploded.

Gross.

We already have dumbasses volunteering to get ID chips implanted in their hands.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/tech ... oyees.html

itchyfingers wrote:As tin foil hat as it might seem at first glance, Indy has a point about the justice system having access to your DNA profile...

"A Rexburg woman, who is an avid genealogist, took her dad’s DNA and unwittingly helped investigators find distant cousin Joseph DeAngelo, who is suspected in killing 11 people and raping 50 women in California from 1978 to 1986. The woman spoke on condition of anonymity, and the Standard Journal like the Associated Press, is not releasing her name.

DeAngelo’s genetic markers matched the woman’s father’s “YDNA” indicating a possible connection to the serial killer. According to familytreedna.com, YDNA passes from father to son and is only found in the direct paternal line."

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/east-idaho-link-to-golden-state-killer-dna-test-helps/article_7f37fb6a-1cd0-5b5a-a627-a7a5bc29f17a.html

A good way to avoid this kind of issue is not to kill and rape people. But I digress.

Actually see this as a positive thing. No reason why a piece of shit like this guy should be walking the streets.

GuitarBilly wrote:

itchyfingers wrote:As tin foil hat as it might seem at first glance, Indy has a point about the justice system having access to your DNA profile...

"A Rexburg woman, who is an avid genealogist, took her dad’s DNA and unwittingly helped investigators find distant cousin Joseph DeAngelo, who is suspected in killing 11 people and raping 50 women in California from 1978 to 1986. The woman spoke on condition of anonymity, and the Standard Journal like the Associated Press, is not releasing her name.

DeAngelo’s genetic markers matched the woman’s father’s “YDNA” indicating a possible connection to the serial killer. According to familytreedna.com, YDNA passes from father to son and is only found in the direct paternal line."

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/east-idaho-link-to-golden-state-killer-dna-test-helps/article_7f37fb6a-1cd0-5b5a-a627-a7a5bc29f17a.html

A good way to avoid this kind of issue is not to kill and rape people. But I digress.

Actually see this as a positive thing. No reason why a piece of shit like this guy should be walking the streets.

Whoa whoa, I never said catching the Golden State Killer was a bad thing, bro!!! Not at all what I was trying to convey, sorry if anyone else read it that way too.

No, I didn't read it that way at all. I didn't think you had an issue with the guy getting caught.
I was just saying that if this is what happens when the justice system has access to your DNA, I am good with it.

Right on, same page man.

We're cool Bill!

Dick Butter Nuts wrote:
I'm not too worried about someone from Russia or China traveling to Minnesota to scrape DNA out of my garbage can.

But what could China and Russia do with your DNA and why would they care to get it in the first place? A DNA profile is pretty useless information unless you are wanted for a major crime like child abduction, murder or rape. Smaller crimes like theft, burglary etc... not the even cops will bother with DNA... Not to mention that a lot of states now mandate DNA samples to be taken whenever you are convicted of a crime, so if you have recent priors, it's already in the system.

But I agree that if you are a murderer with no prior convictions, you should not sign up for 23 and Me.

A lot more damage can be done by getting into someone's phone or getting their SSN than by getting their DNA profile ... I don't think that's a priority for any hacker out there.

Insurance companies, I can see it. But they already have many legal ways to get it.