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I've tried programing in fruity loops with decent results, what I do is make a section of the basic beat, copy it to the length of the track and go in make little changes here and there so it doesn't sound like a sample that's been looped over and over.
My preferred method is to go in with my cheap radio shack keyboard, using the midi and record real time. Like Markdude, I record a first pass with the bass drum and snare with my fills, than go again adding hi hats and cymbals. It sounds more like a real drummer to me and its easier for me to get the beat that's in my head this way.

I record really basic beats from my Electribe, Kaossilator, Ipod touch, synth or whatever, mostly just to establish a tempo, and usually run it through various pedals and other processors, then edit in the fills, rolls, breaks, changeups etc in Soundforge. I like to use effects on the beats to give them their own character and uniqueness, spice them up with mild reverb, compression, overdrive, phasers, echo etc, then sweeten up the initial recording. I don't really like the workstation method of having a zillion different tracks to work on, so I record one stereo wav and do all the work on that, mixing everything into it one copypaste at at time. It's not a very popular approach, but my reasoning is: the end product is going to be a stereo file anyway, so why not just start on that and fine tune it until it's done. Examples/results at the soundcloud link in my sig...

I use my midi trigger (m-audio key rig 49) and then quantize them bitches.

duncan wrote:I use my midi trigger (m-audio key rig 49) and then quantize them bitches.

so you do them by hand with your trigger then use the quantize to even up the tempo?

Yeah. I'll do one pass with the kick and snare. Another pass with the high hats and cymbals.

Then quantize to snap to the grid.

duncan wrote:Yeah. I'll do one pass with the kick and snare. Another pass with the high hats and cymbals.

Then quantize to snap to the grid.

yeah that sounds like it's a good way to do it, I need to buy a MIDI keyboard and give this a try...

Man, they're dirt cheap.

What duncan said. Sorta.

I use a pad controller (NI Maschine controller, but any will do). I like tapping pads more than keys. I set up a custom map on the pads, so my left and right kick pedals are next to each other, and the snare is above the right kick.

I do all of my kick/snare stuff in one pass per song section, unless the kick is really blast-y....then kick and snare are two passes. Then, in the next passes, do toms, then cymbals.

I set loop regions for each passage, so I can step record, sorta.

THEN THE QUANTIZING.

Unless I'm trying to get the drums to sound more human. Then you just play it correctly. That takes more time.



I also like to put triggers on acoustic kits when I'm working with bands that have drummers. I have a really nice studio setup, but until this fall, I don't have a baller drum room. So... I usually go to their place, and record drums, while also putting triggers on a kit, being fed to an Alesis Trigger IO (Trigger to MIDI converter). Then I drop Superior on that bitch.




All that said, if you don't think like a drummer, and can't conceptualize beats very easily, the Toontrack libs are awesome. They're editable MIDI, and between all of the packs out there, there's enough patterns, fills and arrangements to keep you moving....just edit to taste. That's how I wrote a lot of the early Solaris stuff back in '09....and then our drummer would listen and do his thing. It was a quick and dirty way to make demos for the band, for sure.

Loop mentioned something that is HUGELY important to getting great drum tracks...You have to have the ability to at least think like a drummer...Otherwise your stuff will sound real generic. When I'm programming I never do something that a drummer couldn't play...such as 3 hands hitting at the same time...That's always a huge red flag when I hear that in programmed drums

I'd use a pad controller if I had one kicking around. I have a keyrig because it was on sale at the time, and I use it for playing keys as much as I do triggering samples.

KCTigerChief wrote:Loop mentioned something that is HUGELY important to getting great drum tracks...You have to have the ability to at least think like a drummer...Otherwise your stuff will sound real generic. When I'm programming I never do something that a drummer couldn't play...such as 3 hands hitting at the same time...That's always a huge red flag when I hear that in programmed drums

Thankfully, I played drums long before ever picking up a guitar. I hate when I hear a drum track when you can clearly make out 2 crashes, a snare, and an open hat all at the same time.

Loop wrote:What duncan said. Sorta.

I use a pad controller (NI Maschine controller, but any will do). I like tapping pads more than keys. I set up a custom map on the pads, so my left and right kick pedals are next to each other, and the snare is above the right kick.

I do all of my kick/snare stuff in one pass per song section, unless the kick is really blast-y....then kick and snare are two passes. Then, in the next passes, do toms, then cymbals.

I set loop regions for each passage, so I can step record, sorta.

THEN THE QUANTIZING.

Unless I'm trying to get the drums to sound more human. Then you just play it correctly. That takes more time.



I also like to put triggers on acoustic kits when I'm working with bands that have drummers. I have a really nice studio setup, but until this fall, I don't have a baller drum room. So... I usually go to their place, and record drums, while also putting triggers on a kit, being fed to an Alesis Trigger IO (Trigger to MIDI converter). Then I drop Superior on that bitch.




All that said, if you don't think like a drummer, and can't conceptualize beats very easily, the Toontrack libs are awesome. They're editable MIDI, and between all of the packs out there, there's enough patterns, fills and arrangements to keep you moving....just edit to taste. That's how I wrote a lot of the early Solaris stuff back in '09....and then our drummer would listen and do his thing. It was a quick and dirty way to make demos for the band, for sure.

Loop, how sensitive are the pads on the Maschine? I like my PadKontrol, but I'm thinking about selling it and getting an older Maschine Mikro if the pads are all they're cracked up to be. I want to be able to do reaaaaaaally soft ghost notes/rolls. It's tricky with the PadKontrol because the softest hits it seems to be able to pick up are still a little bit higher velocity than I'm wanting for stuff like that.

Markdude wrote:
Loop, how sensitive are the pads on the Maschine? I like my PadKontrol, but I'm thinking about selling it and getting an older Maschine Mikro if the pads are all they're cracked up to be. I want to be able to do reaaaaaaally soft ghost notes/rolls. It's tricky with the PadKontrol because the softest hits it seems to be able to pick up are still a little bit higher velocity than I'm wanting for stuff like that.

They're pretty good. I thump em pretty hard to get to max velocity, but subtle stuff works well.

I actually like the Ableton Push pads (Live fanboy for life) MUCH better. I have a push coming to me soon. After eval'ing it, I had to have it.

But yeah, Maschine is awesome....the controller is crazy well built, and the software is killer.

duncan wrote:

KCTigerChief wrote: I hate when I hear a drum track when you can clearly make out 2 crashes, a snare, and an open hat all at the same time.

I WILL DO 10 FINGER TOM ROLLS.

Deal with it.

duncan wrote:

KCTigerChief wrote:Loop mentioned something that is HUGELY important to getting great drum tracks...You have to have the ability to at least think like a drummer...Otherwise your stuff will sound real generic. When I'm programming I never do something that a drummer couldn't play...such as 3 hands hitting at the same time...That's always a huge red flag when I hear that in programmed drums

Thankfully, I played drums long before ever picking up a guitar. I hate when I hear a drum track when you can clearly make out 2 crashes, a snare, and an open hat all at the same time.

THIS!!!!!

That's what I'm saying man...It's like finernails on a chalkboard to me!

I was a bass player for many years before guitar, and always played with a phenomenal drummer...Played a bit of drums too, so drum riffs come pretty easy to me.

Loop wrote:

Markdude wrote:
Loop, how sensitive are the pads on the Maschine? I like my PadKontrol, but I'm thinking about selling it and getting an older Maschine Mikro if the pads are all they're cracked up to be. I want to be able to do reaaaaaaally soft ghost notes/rolls. It's tricky with the PadKontrol because the softest hits it seems to be able to pick up are still a little bit higher velocity than I'm wanting for stuff like that.

They're pretty good. I thump em pretty hard to get to max velocity, but subtle stuff works well.

I actually like the Ableton Push pads (Live fanboy for life) MUCH better. I have a push coming to me soon. After eval'ing it, I had to have it.

But yeah, Maschine is awesome....the controller is crazy well built, and the software is killer.

I like the idea of using the pads instead of a keyboard, it just seems like it'd be more organic and natural sounding.. and i took percussion though out middle and high school so i have an idea of what i'm doing at least with drums. How do you like Ableton Live/lite? I've noticed a bunch of pads come with it and i have never really heard much about it, it seems everyone is using pro tools/logic.

Thanks for all the help guys!!! it's giving me some hope that i might actually be able to get into recording some more

Great thread. Tons of info. Thanks fellas!

I really need to get some kind of controller with percussion pads. I have so much MIDI crap around here and not a single thing has pads

also Loop, i might be hitting you up when i get paid for a usb interface and a midi control pad

hey guys, moving this to the recording forum because there is a LOT of good info here and I want it to be easy to find for new members looking for advice on virtual drums.

GuitarBilly wrote:hey guys, moving this to the recording forum because there is a LOT of good info here and I want it to be easy to find for new members looking for advice on virtual drums.

Thanks billy!!!! All of you guys have given me new outlook on trying to get some drum tracks laid down

So i'm looking at the Korg Nanopad2 and the padKontrol for my first Midi controller.... i know the PadKontrol is a lot more expensive... but i imagine the quality is better.... what would you guys suggest?

Update!!! after getting my korg nanopad2 today i spent about 2 hours getting it all set up and running, i mess around with it a little but didn't come up with any solid ideas yet... This makes drumming and recording so much fun!!!! i can't wait to get a short clip/idea down for you guys to critique!!!

very cool, I am probably buying the nanopad2 too. Looks good and the price is right.