Guitar Gear Forum

Ostinato Rubato wrote:So a barely correlative mystery syndrome emerges with positive prognosis and we're led to believe we need to protect the children from it by remaining the lockdown. Ok. I guess that's what we're doing here.

clipless bumper wrote:It's all about the lockdown itself now - this will become more obvious as the summer progresses. GA already had positive results while opening up.

nightflameauto wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:So a barely correlative mystery syndrome emerges with positive prognosis and we're led to believe we need to protect the children from it by remaining the lockdown. Ok. I guess that's what we're doing here.

Well, we are in the country that's spent most of the last forty years screaming, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"

The truth is children are carriers. The school lockdowns are honestly about not having the little transfer agents running the disease from house to house among the adults, like they do with the common cold, the flu, or any other yearly sickness. Send the kids to school because they most likely won't be affected, but you'll see adults getting bit for it even in houses where the kids never display symptoms.

IndyWS6 wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:So a barely correlative mystery syndrome emerges with positive prognosis and we're led to believe we need to protect the children from it by remaining the lockdown. Ok. I guess that's what we're doing here.

Well, we are in the country that's spent most of the last forty years screaming, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"

The truth is children are carriers. The school lockdowns are honestly about not having the little transfer agents running the disease from house to house among the adults, like they do with the common cold, the flu, or any other yearly sickness. Send the kids to school because they most likely won't be affected, but you'll see adults getting bit for it even in houses where the kids never display symptoms.

Exactly... A virus that affects children at a low rate but devastates their parents and grandparents is what this is looking like. Why are schools closed? Because, if they were open, every day, hundreds (if not thousands) of kids could become carriers of a deadly virus. This is not rocket science, people...

thisguy wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:So a barely correlative mystery syndrome emerges with positive prognosis and we're led to believe we need to protect the children from it by remaining the lockdown. Ok. I guess that's what we're doing here.

Well, we are in the country that's spent most of the last forty years screaming, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"

The truth is children are carriers. The school lockdowns are honestly about not having the little transfer agents running the disease from house to house among the adults, like they do with the common cold, the flu, or any other yearly sickness. Send the kids to school because they most likely won't be affected, but you'll see adults getting bit for it even in houses where the kids never display symptoms.

Exactly... A virus that affects children at a low rate but devastates their parents and grandparents is what this is looking like. Why are schools closed? Because, if they were open, every day, hundreds (if not thousands) of kids could become carriers of a deadly virus. This is not rocket science, people...

Which is a good thing because, speaking of elementary school, this whole thing has exposed the fact that most adults lack an elementary school level understanding of science.

thisguy wrote:Which is a good thing because, speaking of elementary school, this whole thing has exposed the fact that most adults lack an elementary school level understanding of science.

nightflameauto wrote:

thisguy wrote:Which is a good thing because, speaking of elementary school, this whole thing has exposed the fact that most adults lack an elementary school level understanding of science.

I think there's two levels to this. Education in the US has been shit for a long time, but we've also seen a decline in naturally curious people that go out seeking knowledge rather than just absorbing whatever bullshit is being pumped into their earholes from their preferred media source.

Top that with the tendency to go full tribal with EVERY piece of information among the masses, and here we are. We're watching a country that, for the most part, is filled with people turning a pandemic that should be faced with science and reason, and fighting about it because science just doesn't matter. The number of times I've had an acquaintance lately tell me, "you can't trust scientists. You can't trust doctors. They all have their own special interests."

nightflameauto wrote:

thisguy wrote:Which is a good thing because, speaking of elementary school, this whole thing has exposed the fact that most adults lack an elementary school level understanding of science.

I think there's two levels to this. Education in the US has been shit for a long time, but we've also seen a decline in naturally curious people that go out seeking knowledge rather than just absorbing whatever bullshit is being pumped into their earholes from their preferred media source.

Top that with the tendency to go full tribal with EVERY piece of information among the masses, and here we are. We're watching a country that, for the most part, is filled with people turning a pandemic that should be faced with science and reason, and fighting about it because science just doesn't matter. The number of times I've had an acquaintance lately tell me, "you can't trust scientists. You can't trust doctors. They all have their own special interests."

IndyWS6 wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:So a barely correlative mystery syndrome emerges with positive prognosis and we're led to believe we need to protect the children from it by remaining the lockdown. Ok. I guess that's what we're doing here.

Well, we are in the country that's spent most of the last forty years screaming, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"

The truth is children are carriers. The school lockdowns are honestly about not having the little transfer agents running the disease from house to house among the adults, like they do with the common cold, the flu, or any other yearly sickness. Send the kids to school because they most likely won't be affected, but you'll see adults getting bit for it even in houses where the kids never display symptoms.

Exactly... A virus that affects children at a low rate but devastates their parents and grandparents is what this is looking like. Why are schools closed? Because, if they were open, every day, hundreds (if not thousands) of kids could become carriers of a deadly virus. This is not rocket science, people...

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:

nightflameauto wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:So a barely correlative mystery syndrome emerges with positive prognosis and we're led to believe we need to protect the children from it by remaining the lockdown. Ok. I guess that's what we're doing here.

Well, we are in the country that's spent most of the last forty years screaming, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"

The truth is children are carriers. The school lockdowns are honestly about not having the little transfer agents running the disease from house to house among the adults, like they do with the common cold, the flu, or any other yearly sickness. Send the kids to school because they most likely won't be affected, but you'll see adults getting bit for it even in houses where the kids never display symptoms.

Exactly... A virus that affects children at a low rate but devastates their parents and grandparents is what this is looking like. Why are schools closed? Because, if they were open, every day, hundreds (if not thousands) of kids could become carriers of a deadly virus. This is not rocket science, people...

Find me a confirmed case of a child to adult transmission, please.

I know the difference between a child dying of the disease, and a child carrying the disease and transmitting it to others who it can potentially kill.

Again, there is little to no evidence that children are a vector. Find me a confirmed case.

Ostinato Rubato wrote:There is little to no transmission of SARS-CoV-2, or at least no current known confirmed case, from an infected child to an adult. Additionally, the mortality rate for children is practically zero.

https://dontforgetthebubbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/COVID-data-top-10.pdf

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE KEEPING THE SCHOOLS CLOSED?

Ostinato Rubato wrote:But since literally every single issue in our lives in 2020 is politicized, the conversation becomes very immature and boxed into binaries like 1) You value life over money, 2) You value liberty over safety, or 3) You sound like you agree with one "side" vs. the "other" side.

I hate it all.

Ostinato Rubato wrote:There are several disease that behave differently in different categories of people for different reasons. It's all very complex. There are no known transmissions from children (10 and under) to adults. 1/3 of all deaths are the result of nursing home transmission.

You can get the kids back in school, and you can keep everyone over the age of 60 home and sending them financial support, while the rest of us work. You can give nursing homes resources to protect themselves and expand their measures to limit the spread. There is actually enough information now to adjust course responsibly.

Because what's the alternative? What are we waiting for? Therapeutic? Vaccine? Herd Immunity? None of those are acceptable place holders for policy. and we keep saying that we need to listen to the experts, which is absolutely true, but with a very important caveat. If they don't have an actual alternative to lock down, then the extent to which their expert opinion is useable is very fucking limited. There comes a point, like with all issues of public health and public policy, where you understand that people will have to accept a certain level of fixed risk and let them have agency over their lives and decisions.

But since literally every single issue in our lives in 2020 is politicized, the conversation becomes very immature and boxed into binaries like 1) You value life over money, 2) You value liberty over safety, or 3) You sound like you agree with one "side" vs. the "other" side.

I hate it all.

GuitarBilly wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:There are several disease that behave differently in different categories of people for different reasons. It's all very complex. There are no known transmissions from children (10 and under) to adults. 1/3 of all deaths are the result of nursing home transmission.

You can get the kids back in school, and you can keep everyone over the age of 60 home and sending them financial support, while the rest of us work. You can give nursing homes resources to protect themselves and expand their measures to limit the spread. There is actually enough information now to adjust course responsibly.

Because what's the alternative? What are we waiting for? Therapeutic? Vaccine? Herd Immunity? None of those are acceptable place holders for policy. and we keep saying that we need to listen to the experts, which is absolutely true, but with a very important caveat. If they don't have an actual alternative to lock down, then the extent to which their expert opinion is useable is very fucking limited. There comes a point, like with all issues of public health and public policy, where you understand that people will have to accept a certain level of fixed risk and let them have agency over their lives and decisions.

But since literally every single issue in our lives in 2020 is politicized, the conversation becomes very immature and boxed into binaries like 1) You value life over money, 2) You value liberty over safety, or 3) You sound like you agree with one "side" vs. the "other" side.

I hate it all.

yeah I mean, schools would be out in a few weeks anyway, so I don't know how beneficial it would be to open now just to close again in a few weeks. But then again, I don't have 5 children in my house.

But I really see no upside to risk transmission at this point ( again, there is a lot of adult to adult interaction in the course of a normal school day, children are not in school alone), this school year is gone no matter what

clipless bumper wrote:you are starting to come around Mikey!!!

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

clipless bumper wrote:you are starting to come around Mikey!!!

I'm having a moment similar to this meme...

Ostinato Rubato wrote:

GuitarBilly wrote:

Ostinato Rubato wrote:There are several disease that behave differently in different categories of people for different reasons. It's all very complex. There are no known transmissions from children (10 and under) to adults. 1/3 of all deaths are the result of nursing home transmission.

You can get the kids back in school, and you can keep everyone over the age of 60 home and sending them financial support, while the rest of us work. You can give nursing homes resources to protect themselves and expand their measures to limit the spread. There is actually enough information now to adjust course responsibly.

Because what's the alternative? What are we waiting for? Therapeutic? Vaccine? Herd Immunity? None of those are acceptable place holders for policy. and we keep saying that we need to listen to the experts, which is absolutely true, but with a very important caveat. If they don't have an actual alternative to lock down, then the extent to which their expert opinion is useable is very fucking limited. There comes a point, like with all issues of public health and public policy, where you understand that people will have to accept a certain level of fixed risk and let them have agency over their lives and decisions.

But since literally every single issue in our lives in 2020 is politicized, the conversation becomes very immature and boxed into binaries like 1) You value life over money, 2) You value liberty over safety, or 3) You sound like you agree with one "side" vs. the "other" side.

I hate it all.

yeah I mean, schools would be out in a few weeks anyway, so I don't know how beneficial it would be to open now just to close again in a few weeks. But then again, I don't have 5 children in my house.

But I really see no upside to risk transmission at this point ( again, there is a lot of adult to adult interaction in the course of a normal school day, children are not in school alone), this school year is gone no matter what

There's still childcare that people need during the summer. All of the summer camp and day camp facilities, YMCA's, Boys & Girls clubs, etc. will be closed. I'm having a hard time getting people back to work who have kids, and they want to come back.

At what point will we start seeing the upside to risking transmission? Again, what's the alternative? Until some unknown and unforeseeable achievement is reached which reduces the risk of transmission, we will be dealing with the exact same risk of transmission. It might be a permanent feature of human life forever going forward, like the common flu... and every other coronavirus we've had.

At what point do we acknowledge this and start making the same types of tough decisions that we make with every other public health problem? We each are at greater risk of killing someone by driving on streets and freeways than we are of killing someone by giving them a coronavirus.

The original stated purpose of lockdown was to flatten the curve and prevent the healthcare system from being overwhelmed, which we achieved. Will it come back, yes. So... what does that prove? That we can't contain it and locking down won't solve the problem.

Meanwhile we have hospitals laying off doctors because there's a lack of patients, we're on track for an absurd ventilator SURPLUS and 9 out of 10 people on ventilators die and it's not clear that they have saved any lives.

I think I'm gonna drop this topic and try to shake it all off and enjoy the rest of my Friday.

Schweezly wrote:
While I’m on the “better safe than sorry” side of this, I feel the part I bolded above has been lost by a lot of people. The original stay at hone was to let hospitals catch up and be able to handle this.

In a lot of places it now feels like “we can’t get out of lockdown until no one will die” and that’s just not feasible at this point. I’m currently able to work from home so I’m not sweating, but if we go months longer that could change.

I don’t want to get this thing, and I certainly want to limit how many people do. I really have no idea what the right move is. I just think we need to remember why we are staying at home in the first place

GuitarBilly wrote:

Schweezly wrote:
While I’m on the “better safe than sorry” side of this, I feel the part I bolded above has been lost by a lot of people. The original stay at hone was to let hospitals catch up and be able to handle this.

In a lot of places it now feels like “we can’t get out of lockdown until no one will die” and that’s just not feasible at this point. I’m currently able to work from home so I’m not sweating, but if we go months longer that could change.

I don’t want to get this thing, and I certainly want to limit how many people do. I really have no idea what the right move is. I just think we need to remember why we are staying at home in the first place

I don't know if it's been lost. I don't know of anyone who thinks we should stay closed until deaths are near zero ( well, I'm sure some nutjobs think that, but it's not a significant amount) .

What I see is people just wanting to wait until they meet the CDC guidelines for each phase, that's all. And honestly, I think there's more agreement about that than anything else.

but like everything else in this country, the extremists make the most noise (on both sides).