Guitar Gear Forum

EndTime wrote:I know this forum is not very big. But we can say there are at least a few hundred active members. Maybe more. Idk. And besides a handful of us who know we had it, I don’t any of us having any difficulty. Certainly no one dying. Altho my mechanic is still struggling. But the point being, this group is a t least some sort of sample base and I would guess it hasn’t killed a single one of us. If the fatality was truly at 3%, hell even 1%, you’d think it would have gotten someone within this group.

Well... dead people don’t post very often, so we can’t really be sure of that.

GuitarBilly wrote:

EndTime wrote:What’s irresponsible?

I’ve been trying to say this for idk, 2 months. Lol

Yeah, but 2 months ago, you had absolutely no way to know how bad it would be. No one did. It is a new virus and the information we had back then was either from China , which is notoriously unreliable, or from Italy/Spain, which looked pretty bad.

So it's not like "you knew it all along". You took a guess and it seems like it could be correct based on what we know now, but back then it was still a wild guess based on your own bias and nothing else.

Now, you as a private citizen, can take a wild guess and hope for the best, that's your right. Public health officials, on the other hand, need to be a bit more careful/responsible than that. So based on the fact it was a new virus, with no known cure or treatment and the data was sparse, they decided on the side of public safety. And I am glad they did, even though it affected me negatively (I am on 2/3 salary and wife is unemployed). They made the absolute right decision based on the potential risk and data availability at that time.
Now that we have more actual, domestic data we can plan to reopen, in phases. I think the CDC guidelines for the phases are pretty good. But only if they're followed properly.

Also, just because people in your area are going to Walmart doesn't mean it's been business as usual or even close to it. Most work places are still closed. Schools, theaters, games etc still closed. Air travel, which is how the virus got here in the first place is down 90%. So it's entirely possible that as we reopen, numbers will actually go up and it's not necessarily going to be a hoax. This needs to be monitored closely and seriously until data is way more solid than it is, even now.
The question now is whether these numbers are going to stay within "acceptable" levels that we can live with as a country. From the current data, it seems that it could be possible. But we'll see.

Even before the "lockdown", a doc in Norway said "If this goes well, and the R-number drops, there will be someone saying "I told you so" afterwards"
Because the R WILL drop when there's noone to infect...
Norway hasn't been overrun yet, but the schools are opening today, so time will tell...

We're only 5,3 million, are not a "kiss on the cheek" nation, we don't sit down beside someone on the bus or train if there's an empty row further back..
Hopefully the kids won't spread it like wildfire. Mine are 12 and 16, so they're past the age where impulses run everything.

Krunchmeister wrote:I know 3 people who died from it so far. Its blowing up in Russia with over 10k new cases a day. Today wall street had its biggest day in 30years and unemployment is worst since great depression. Proves that wall street does not give a crap about real people or their blood. They wont be out in public to risk their lives for minimum wage .They will hide in gated communities or penthouses counting their gambling cash and government bailouts.

Dont mix your emotions with fiscal policy and wall street "not caring"


The Federal goverment has pumped TRILLIONS of dollars in terms of loans/unemployment insurance into the economy, interest rates are at basically zero making $$ cheap to borrow and also making any interest possible in banks nearly nothing, so big institutions amd many people are putting $$ into the market. Factor in that the market and economy were VERY HEALTHY before the virus/pandemic and maybe there was some panic selling and prices become to cheap to miss out, the market has bounced pretty well so far and that is some of the reasons imo


Wall St is a EZ target for many people but they provide many jobs/liquidity/cash etc and there are many people who work on Wall St who are not millionaires, like just secretaries, assistants, IT types, compliance people, etc, etc. Wall street is not the big bad boogie man that some like to portray all the time

To me, its kinda strange that the stock market can have its "biggest day" while over half of Americans (who can work) are out of work.

Our state basically went over the whole thing and gave up over the past week or so. We went from government "recommendations" to essentially going, "fuck it, just do what you want." Driving down one of our main streets on Sunday we saw several local restaurants open and packed to the fuckin' gills. I get that it's mother's day, but one of them is a known haunt for the oldsters and you could see dozens of people hugging each other and shaking hands as they met. Seems like a great plan as we still see our numbers of cases rising pretty steadily.

Coronavirus doesn't even exist

Scary shit

nightflameauto wrote:Our state basically went over the whole thing and gave up over the past week or so. We went from government "recommendations" to essentially going, "fuck it, just do what you want." Driving down one of our main streets on Sunday we saw several local restaurants open and packed to the fuckin' gills. I get that it's mother's day, but one of them is a known haunt for the oldsters and you could see dozens of people hugging each other and shaking hands as they met. Seems like a great plan as we still see our numbers of cases rising pretty steadily.

Darwinism.

Georgia opened a couple weeks ago - they just had their lowest deaths and cases since this thing started.

I am hoping for three things:

1. Clear data and answers, something substantial that people can track easily without having conflicting information from various media outlets. The covid trackers can be misleading (depending on how to interpret the data) and I do not think those numbers are very usable to the laymen.

2. Causal determination of the population based spread of the virus - and - severity of the infection based on viral load/dose due to the main vectors.

3. A better widespread determination of herd immunity distance through antibody testing.

It is understandable that chaos was ruling in terms of data at the beginning, but now we don't depend on models nearly as much as there is now hard data. The lifting of restrictions will allow a much more robust dataset to answer the above questions.

Its not about 'I told you so.' - Its about getting the right data. As far as I can tell, so far the science community is hard at work crunching data as we speak. Until the datasets are peer reviewed and correlated to each other, its all armchair best-guess based on very loose data. Even doctors are all over the news, often contradicting each other / or seemingly so until you understand what they mean. A lot of professionals are basing their answers on narrow datasets, incomplete information, and they usually even stipulate it in the article or interview. Then people point at their tv sets / computer screens and "see? what did i tell you? I was right!".. well thats just an opinion at this point.

Stay safe and healthy.

People are very quick to jump on preprints that haven't even started peer review. People want quick and easy answers. Science takes time and isn't likely to give us nice, simple answers.

***1776*** wrote:

Krunchmeister wrote:I know 3 people who died from it so far. Its blowing up in Russia with over 10k new cases a day. Today wall street had its biggest day in 30years and unemployment is worst since great depression. Proves that wall street does not give a crap about real people or their blood. They wont be out in public to risk their lives for minimum wage .They will hide in gated communities or penthouses counting their gambling cash and government bailouts.

Dont mix your emotions with fiscal policy and wall street "not caring"


The Federal goverment has pumped TRILLIONS of dollars in terms of loans/unemployment insurance into the economy, interest rates are at basically zero making $$ cheap to borrow and also making any interest possible in banks nearly nothing, so big institutions amd many people are putting $$ into the market. Factor in that the market and economy were VERY HEALTHY before the virus/pandemic and maybe there was some panic selling and prices become to cheap to miss out, the market has bounced pretty well so far and that is some of the reasons imo


Wall St is a EZ target for many people but they provide many jobs/liquidity/cash etc and there are many people who work on Wall St who are not millionaires, like just secretaries, assistants, IT types, compliance people, etc, etc. Wall street is not the big bad boogie man that some like to portray all the time

It's not so much an issue of Wall St. not caring, as it is the fed printing trillions of dollars and pumping them into the markets, which at some point is likely to result in inflation. The German Weimar Republic did something similar at the end of WWI, and the results were horrific to the common man but not to the upper class, and are considered one of the prime factors in the rise of the Nazi Party. The market upward price curve since the fed started running the virtual presses is very highly correlated with the dollars hitting the market, and is almost as steep upward as production is going downward. Even Warren Buffett is questioning the wisdom of this.

If you consider the market a call on real productivity, which has fallen by I think something like 60% during the lockdown, it has gone from 1.1 to 2.0 in three months. Translated, that means in relative terms that stock owners on average have almost doubled their wealth relative to people who don't have most of their money invested in the market.

Gotta Love how an "Off Topic" thread went so far off topic and into the Political realm. Shit is for real and coming to a city to you. Stay smart, stay safe. It is far from over..

Just talked to a friend that’s an RN.

Haven’t spoken in a while, was concerned and figured she ghosted us. She finally got back, said that she contracted it, and then gave it to her family. They were put under strict home quarantine and were told under penalty of her being fired not to tell anyone and the CDC was calling them daily to check on symptoms.

The fuck?!

Steinmetzify wrote:Just talked to a friend that’s an RN.

Haven’t spoken in a while, was concerned and figured she ghosted us. She finally got back, said that she contracted it, and then gave it to her family. They were put under strict home quarantine and were told under penalty of her being fired not to tell anyone and the CDC was calling them daily to check on symptoms.

The fuck?!

Many hospitals are losing business because, people are afraid they'll catch the virus if they go.
An article said, people are avoiding the hospital even though they are exhibiting signs of heart attack and they are putting off surgery.
Sounds like your friend's hospital doesn't want potential customers to know that they're having issues.

ajaxlepinski wrote:.......
Sounds like your friend's hospital doesn't want potential customers to know that they're having issues.

Exactly

But more importantly - did she and her family come through it ok?

clipless bumper wrote:

ajaxlepinski wrote:.......
Sounds like your friend's hospital doesn't want potential customers to know that they're having issues.

Exactly

But more importantly - did she and her family come through it ok?

Yeah they’re good. Didn’t think of the hospital losing business, makes sense.

ajaxlepinski wrote:

Steinmetzify wrote:Just talked to a friend that’s an RN.

Haven’t spoken in a while, was concerned and figured she ghosted us. She finally got back, said that she contracted it, and then gave it to her family. They were put under strict home quarantine and were told under penalty of her being fired not to tell anyone and the CDC was calling them daily to check on symptoms.

The fuck?!

Many hospitals are losing business because, people are afraid they'll catch the virus if they go.
An article said, people are avoiding the hospital even though they are exhibiting signs of heart attack and they are putting off surgery.
Sounds like your friend's hospital doesn't want potential customers to know that they're having issues.

That's a great and scary observation: customers.

Here's scary...

My girlfriend's father (87 years old) died unexpectedly Saturday morning. He was walking through the dining room and fell flat Friday afternoon, but was conscious and alert when the paramedics arrived. He disclosed that he had been having a little chest discomfort the previous two days (unknown to everyone), but nothing severe. They took him to the hospital and, because of Coronavirus, we couldn't go. At the hospital, blood work indicated that he was having a heart attack and they were preparing to lifeline him to a heart hospital. A few hours later, the update said that they determined it was not a heart issue and that he had pulmonary embolism(s). Basically, blood clots had moved through his heart, which is why the blood work indicated a heart attack, but he survived it and they were in his lungs. They gave meds to break them up and prevent others and he was much improved. He had a good night on Friday, all things considered. Saturday morning, he was sore, but coherent and lucid and asking for a "real" breakfast. They ordered one and a few minutes later, another clot went through his heart. He did not survive. My GF had to give permission over the phone for them to stop resuscitation efforts.

He had a few issues, but nothing that would have made one expect the end was near. He had no signs of COVID and I had been going to the store and running errands to keep him and his wife (92 YO) safely in the house. He did venture out (masked) a couple of times to my dismay, but seemed healthy for a nearly 90 year old person. Now, the reports that document people that don't present with the typical/obvious COVID symptoms but suddenly die due to complications from blood clots are front and center. I don't know if that's what happened, but it damn sure makes you wonder. I am not "blood" family, so I can't make the request, but I have asked the GF to check with the hospital to see if they tested for COVID. If nothing else, we need to know so we can take the proper precautions. The funeral is Thursday with a strictly-limited number of people allowed. We need to understand how to ensure their safety.

What a shitty way to bury a Korean War veteran with a 45 year work history that loved his family. This blows...

Very sad to hear that . R.I.P. blood clots man they scare me too , especially now as they are popping up in this virus . I had one a pulmonary embolism several years ago . I was too young for that then and I'm too young for it now but they didn't know why it happened . Pain you say fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

IndyWS6 wrote:Here's scary...

My girlfriend's father (87 years old) died unexpectedly Saturday morning. He was walking through the dining room and fell flat Friday afternoon, but was conscious and alert when the paramedics arrived. He disclosed that he had been having a little chest discomfort the previous two days (unknown to everyone), but nothing severe. They took him to the hospital and, because of Coronavirus, we couldn't go. At the hospital, blood work indicated that he was having a heart attack and they were preparing to lifeline him to a heart hospital. A few hours later, the update said that they determined it was not a heart issue and that he had pulmonary embolism(s). Basically, blood clots had moved through his heart, which is why the blood work indicated a heart attack, but he survived it and they were in his lungs. They gave meds to break them up and prevent others and he was much improved. He had a good night on Friday, all things considered. Saturday morning, he was sore, but coherent and lucid and asking for a "real" breakfast. They ordered one and a few minutes later, another clot went through his heart. He did not survive. My GF had to give permission over the phone for them to stop resuscitation efforts.

He had a few issues, but nothing that would have made one expect the end was near. He had no signs of COVID and I had been going to the store and running errands to keep him and his wife (92 YO) safely in the house. He did venture out (masked) a couple of times to my dismay, but seemed healthy for a nearly 90 year old person. Now, the reports that document people that don't present with the typical/obvious COVID symptoms but suddenly die due to complications from blood clots are front and center. I don't know if that's what happened, but it damn sure makes you wonder. I am not "blood" family, so I can't make the request, but I have asked the GF to check with the hospital to see if they tested for COVID. If nothing else, we need to know so we can take the proper precautions. The funeral is Thursday with a strictly-limited number of people allowed. We need to understand how to ensure their safety.

What a shitty way to bury a Korean War veteran with a 45 year work history that loved his family. This blows...

Sorry to hear. We lost my wife’s grandfather a few weeks ago to something unrelated to Covid, but he showed similar symptoms (negative test though.)

He passed with no one around, and no service could be had. We have to wait months to have anything related to a service/memorial for him. My wife has been relatively ok, but other family members have really struggled with it.

The idea of losing a close family member and knowing that they died alone...it’s just terrible and hard for me to think about.

Schweezly wrote:

IndyWS6 wrote:Here's scary...

My girlfriend's father (87 years old) died unexpectedly Saturday morning. He was walking through the dining room and fell flat Friday afternoon, but was conscious and alert when the paramedics arrived. He disclosed that he had been having a little chest discomfort the previous two days (unknown to everyone), but nothing severe. They took him to the hospital and, because of Coronavirus, we couldn't go. At the hospital, blood work indicated that he was having a heart attack and they were preparing to lifeline him to a heart hospital. A few hours later, the update said that they determined it was not a heart issue and that he had pulmonary embolism(s). Basically, blood clots had moved through his heart, which is why the blood work indicated a heart attack, but he survived it and they were in his lungs. They gave meds to break them up and prevent others and he was much improved. He had a good night on Friday, all things considered. Saturday morning, he was sore, but coherent and lucid and asking for a "real" breakfast. They ordered one and a few minutes later, another clot went through his heart. He did not survive. My GF had to give permission over the phone for them to stop resuscitation efforts.

He had a few issues, but nothing that would have made one expect the end was near. He had no signs of COVID and I had been going to the store and running errands to keep him and his wife (92 YO) safely in the house. He did venture out (masked) a couple of times to my dismay, but seemed healthy for a nearly 90 year old person. Now, the reports that document people that don't present with the typical/obvious COVID symptoms but suddenly die due to complications from blood clots are front and center. I don't know if that's what happened, but it damn sure makes you wonder. I am not "blood" family, so I can't make the request, but I have asked the GF to check with the hospital to see if they tested for COVID. If nothing else, we need to know so we can take the proper precautions. The funeral is Thursday with a strictly-limited number of people allowed. We need to understand how to ensure their safety.

What a shitty way to bury a Korean War veteran with a 45 year work history that loved his family. This blows...

Sorry to hear. We lost my wife’s grandfather a few weeks ago to something unrelated to Covid, but he showed similar symptoms (negative test though.)

He passed with no one around, and no service could be had. We have to wait months to have anything related to a service/memorial for him. My wife has been relatively ok, but other family members have really struggled with it.

The idea of losing a close family member and knowing that they died alone...it’s just terrible and hard for me to think about.

Thanks... Somehow, we were kindred spirits, so this is hurting more than it might just knowing that my GF is hurting... He and my GF's mom were married for 67 years. You always hear about long-term marriage partners dying close together. I hope that's not the case, but I wouldn't be surprised. They were everything to each other. It will be hard for her to carry on. Need to figure out how to help her pull through...

So there's a key issue that's starting to come to light in regards to the data. I heard about this from Elon Musk's appearance last week on the Joe Rogan Experience and then fact checked it. He said that the federal government is classifying "dying with COVID" as "dying of COVID". So for example, I can have a heart attack, but if I had a COVID diagnosis it goes on the books as a COVID death. That confuses things wildly.

There's also the issue of hospitals receiving additional money through the CARES act for Medicare cases being treated for COVID, so they are therefore incentivized to over report the number of cases, particularly in areas where people are no longer going to the hospital and the hospital administration is facing the tough choice of laying off doctors or padding the numbers to get more funding.

We have perverse incentives and questionable classification schemes messing up the numbers. That doesn't mean we don't have a deadly pandemic and that doesn't mean anything as far as my own opinion about the shutdowns and reopenings. But you simply can't have the correct conversation without looking at complexities like this.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/feds-classify-all-coronavirus-patient-deaths-as-covid-19-deaths/

https://fee.org/articles/physicians-say-hospitals-are-pressuring-er-docs-to-list-covid-19-on-death-certificates-here-s-why/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Ostinato Rubato wrote:So there's a key issue that's starting to come to light in regards to the data. I heard about this from Elon Musk's appearance last week on the Joe Rogan Experience and then fact checked it. He said that the federal government is classifying "dying with COVID" as "dying of COVID". So for example, I can have a heart attack, but if I had a COVID diagnosis it goes on the books as a COVID death. That confuses things wildly.

There's also the issue of hospitals receiving additional money through the CARES act for Medicare cases being treated for COVID, so they are therefore incentivized to over report the number of cases, particularly in areas where people are no longer going to the hospital and the hospital administration is facing the tough choice of laying off doctors or padding the numbers to get more funding.

We have perverse incentives and questionable classification schemes messing up the numbers. That doesn't mean we don't have a deadly pandemic and that doesn't mean anything as far as my own opinion about the shutdowns and reopenings. But you simply can't have the correct conversation without looking at complexities like this.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/feds-classify-all-coronavirus-patient-deaths-as-covid-19-deaths/

https://fee.org/articles/physicians-say-hospitals-are-pressuring-er-docs-to-list-covid-19-on-death-certificates-here-s-why/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Without even looking at the links, agreed... As gruesome as it is (potentially first hand knowledge), it should be a simple task to accurately assign the cause of death to COVID (or not). Inaccurate numbers don't help anyone, unless you are incentivized or stand to profit in some other way. As a world society, we need accurate data to plan for the next bat shit crazy pandemic...

So sorry to hear your loss, Indy. Best regards to the family.

There's so really wild things going on when it comes to the data. The worst part of it all is you have some playing a money game, some playing a political game, and some just trying to do their job. But nobody seems to know how we, especially in the states, can get a grip on our systems and shake the truth free from the constant finger pointing.