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soulsurfer wrote:

madryan wrote:

soulsurfer wrote:How would you suggest one prove voter fraud is occurring? (illegal immigrant's voting)

I'd start with incidents of voter fraud that are reported to the state Attorney General. They're the governing legal authority on such matters. It's all public record. They investigate reports every election cycle and a few are found to be valid but they almost always occur at the poll worker level, not the voter level.

The fundamental idea behind voting is 1 Citizen = 1 Vote. If you're getting 107% turnout like some of the banana republic countries or Breakaway Republics in the Balkans then something is up. If your voter turnout is something like 30% which would be stellar in our country and the votes you count are all registered voters (which they check) then what the hell is the problem?

That's what I don't get. I'll ask the question again... Why would someone risk a Felony by letting someone else vote in their stead with their ID. (which is why I'm betting that video posted was utter bullshit. Nobody commits a Felony on camera) Or, similarly, why would someone who's living under the radar go out of their way to find someone who's a registered voter to let them vote in their stead.

But the real question is why the hell would it matter? Is someone named Juan who happened to be born in Tijuana but has been living here for 20 years going to vote any different than someone named Pedro who is a US citizen but has bounced back and forth between the US and Mexico and works with Juan?

Do you believe that because people are from some other country that they have some sort of agenda? Like they hold meetings and bitch and come up with schemes and organize at the national level to change the political system in the US?

It's all meaningless.

1 Citizen 1 Vote. It's so simple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJDudUpct0

so much for your record keeping

I'm sure the Florida Attorney General investigated it. Find me the case.

DoubleBarrel wrote:

madryan wrote:
Most conservatives obviously believe Gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because it's illegal in all but a few states. Some states even ban gays from adopting.

Wrong again. Just because there is a little thing like a "law" obstructing your little liberal adgenda, doesn't mean it the evil conservatives that put the law there.

madryan wrote:You also obviously missed the 90's when Clinton signed Welfare reform into law. No more lifetime entitlement.

Yeah, ever since the hero of the left, Bill Clinton, there hasn't been any welfare fraud or medicare/medicade/food stamp fraud. Now who's talking bullshit ?

madryan wrote:But then what about people who are legitimately disabled in some way. My ex wife's brother is developmentally disabled. He's just high functioning enough that he can get around on the bus or ride a bike. He can read and write but he can't do anything but the most menial, repetitive jobs. He'll never support himself, but he's too high functioning to get on SSI. Should we just let him die in the fucking ditch?

No, your family should take care if him

madryan wrote:BTW, the biggest expansion of medicare since the plan was enacted was GW. It added a couple trillion to the debt. Look it up.

News Flash - GW was not a conservative

madryan wrote:Facts son... You might want to check yours.

Facts son, you have none

madryan wrote:Above all, understand that the world isn't nearly as simple as conservatives like to think it is.

See that's the problem with you libs, facts mean nothing to you. Despite a conservative telling you what they believe, you continue to spout the liberal talking points which are , misinformed at best, and pure lies at worst.

Newsflash... Sometimes shit happens. If you bothered to look up statistics on Welfare and similar social programs you'd see that the vast bulk of people are on it a very short time before voluntarily moving off because they've gotten a job that pays or whatever. I know facts don't really matter though.

I'm not even trying and I'm still finding fraud...what of all those that get away with it or are reported but evidence is too weak to do anything about it?

What of other crimes (non immigrant related)? what are the percentages of the 'clearance rate'?
on the low end it is 13% that get cleared. that means reported, arrested, convicted. and on the high end it is 63% that get 'cleared'.

Let's extrapolate that to voter fraud. That means the reported/convicted ppl of voter fraud represent about 10-15% of ALL the fraud that occurs.

THAT my dear madryan is something to be concerned about.

madryan wrote:Newsflash... Sometimes shit happens. If you bothered to look up statistics on Welfare and similar social programs you'd see that the vast bulk of people are on it a very short time before voluntarily moving off because they've gotten a job that pays or whatever. I know facts don't really matter though.

I know facts don't matter to you. Even video proof doesn't matter.

Got some sources to back up that claim you just made there. ???

DoubleBarrel wrote:

madryan wrote:Newsflash... Sometimes shit happens. If you bothered to look up statistics on Welfare and similar social programs you'd see that the vast bulk of people are on it a very short time before voluntarily moving off because they've gotten a job that pays or whatever. I know facts don't really matter though.

I know facts don't matter to you. Even video proof doesn't matter.

Got some sources to back up that claim you just made there. ???

I'm just finishing up at the gym. Let me get home and I will.

K... Here's some light reading for you that's well documented so you can check their sources. I'm not going to cut and paste it but it's a couple of well researched pieces.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarepoverty.htm

Feel free to run down their sources but don't come back with a reply unless you can refute them with reputable data.

soulsurfer wrote:I'm not even trying and I'm still finding fraud...what of all those that get away with it or are reported but evidence is too weak to do anything about it?

What of other crimes (non immigrant related)? what are the percentages of the 'clearance rate'?
on the low end it is 13% that get cleared. that means reported, arrested, convicted. and on the high end it is 63% that get 'cleared'.

Let's extrapolate that to voter fraud. That means the reported/convicted ppl of voter fraud represent about 10-15% of ALL the fraud that occurs.

THAT my dear madryan is something to be concerned about.

Are you finding Heritage rant pieces or actual documented fraud cases which were reported to the Attorney General in the state in question. Anyone can say anything they want on the interwebz so if it wasn't reported it didn't happen.

madryan wrote:

DoubleBarrel wrote:

madryan wrote:Newsflash... Sometimes shit happens. If you bothered to look up statistics on Welfare and similar social programs you'd see that the vast bulk of people are on it a very short time before voluntarily moving off because they've gotten a job that pays or whatever. I know facts don't really matter though.

I know facts don't matter to you. Even video proof doesn't matter.

Got some sources to back up that claim you just made there. ???

I'm just finishing up at the gym. Let me get home and I will.

K... Here's some light reading for you that's well documented so you can check their sources. I'm not going to cut and paste it but it's a couple of well researched pieces.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarepoverty.htm

Feel free to run down their sources but don't come back with a reply unless you can refute them with reputable data.

"Kangaroo - Huppi
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/
Welcome to the home page of Steve Kangas, budding political scientist, fighting liberal and chess player.."


Lol, solid sources. The contrasting and equal reciprocal of breitbart.

Some fight fire with fire, you my good sir, fight it with compressed kerosene.

Lloyd Blankfein wrote:

madryan wrote:

DoubleBarrel wrote:

madryan wrote:Newsflash... Sometimes shit happens. If you bothered to look up statistics on Welfare and similar social programs you'd see that the vast bulk of people are on it a very short time before voluntarily moving off because they've gotten a job that pays or whatever. I know facts don't really matter though.

I know facts don't matter to you. Even video proof doesn't matter.

Got some sources to back up that claim you just made there. ???

I'm just finishing up at the gym. Let me get home and I will.

K... Here's some light reading for you that's well documented so you can check their sources. I'm not going to cut and paste it but it's a couple of well researched pieces.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarepoverty.htm

Feel free to run down their sources but don't come back with a reply unless you can refute them with reputable data.

"Kangaroo - Huppi
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/
Welcome to the home page of Steve Kangas, budding political scientist, fighting liberal and chess player.."


Lol, solid sources. The contrasting and equal reciprocal of breitbart.

Some fight fire with fire, you my good sir, fight it with compressed kerosene.

I said he backed up his writing with sources. He has endnotes and footnotes and sources. Which is more than I can say for any of us. Did you bother to read any of it and factcheck it? I know most of it's correct because I just had an upper div sociology class over the summer which covered most of this stuff. It's not exactly rocket science.

such bigoted diatribe. no madryan. this has gone on enough. first you post a bigoted blog filled with stereotypes and simple opinions and ask for input. many have posted their opinion both on the blog directly and the content's tangents.
You however, refuse to truly welcome anything other than that which echos the splooge of the uneducated.

It sounds more like you just want to pick a fight (i'm not trolling -says you) ...nothing you post proves that. show me some evidence that you are not looking for a fight, or trolling. nothing short of government or law enforcement documents will be excepted.

Here's what I think. Correct me if I'm wrong plz.., you are hurt, angry, maybe even hateful and are blaming your perceived vision of what "the right" is, on your pain.

You will become that which you focus your vision.

If I may offer this observation, 'be careful. you are starting to look suspiciously like your enemy'

soulsurfer wrote:such bigoted diatribe. no madryan. this has gone on enough. first you post a bigoted blog filled with stereotypes and simple opinions and ask for input. many have posted their opinion both on the blog directly and the content's tangents.
You however, refuse to truly welcome anything other than that which echos the splooge of the uneducated.

It sounds more like you just want to pick a fight (i'm not trolling -says you) ...nothing you post proves that. show me some evidence that you are not looking for a fight, or trolling. nothing short of government or law enforcement documents will be excepted.

Here's what I think. Correct me if I'm wrong plz.., you are hurt, angry, maybe even hateful and are blaming your perceived vision of what "the right" is, on your pain.

You will become that which you focus your vision.

If I may offer this observation, 'be careful. you are starting to look suspiciously like your enemy'

I don't think it's out of line, if someone makes a statement such as "Illegal voting is widespread" for me to say "Prove it" which would require a well researched blog (one that has actual linked stats, generated from DOJ sources for instance) a series of actual State stats from their Attorney General sites, etc. I mean back on HCPP someone was ranting about Voter Fraud and I went out and found a bunch of the info and linked it and posted it up in about 15min.

Notice when called out on my own claims I posted a blog that the author meticulously researched which supported my position. I'll happily run down the actual studies which support it but that guy already did the work for me.

Heritage and Cato and the rest don't actually supply stats because they don't actually do a whole lot of research, or they cook the numbers on selected stuff to say exactly what they want it to say. This is why I'd be tossed out of any upper div or grad level Econ course for using their stuff in a paper.

You want to know something about me? I'm an empiricist. Show me the truth and I'll happily toss my previous position under the bus. I actually feel we need both conservatives and liberals in our government these days because Liberals are constantly trying to change things, and you know that adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" well that often applies to things liberals want to tinker with. The problem with Conservatives is that it often takes a liberal to clue them in that something is broken at all. So you see we kind of need both sides.

What we don't need is the current situation whereby the right has made it a big part of their platform to demonize the poor whilst continuing to reward the elite and extremely wealthy. That's not conservatism, that's something completely different. That's pure idiocy.

If we keep cutting taxes on the upper income earners, cutting services and funding for schools and headstart and all that, and shouldering the middle class with the remaining tax burden, we're going to end up with a nation of people who are 1) uniformly poor 2) apathetic to everything but making a living 3) pissed at the rich. Basically every 3rd world country I've lived in. I don't want that here.

So again, as I stated in my original post, many of my more left leaning friends honestly see the current republican party, especially the yahoos like Cruz, Bachman, etc. in exactly that light.

Interestingly, many of my generation and younger are seeing the boomers in an interesting light. They're pissed. I'm in this Group Dynamics class (Upper div Psych class) and we got off on a tangent and someone mentioned how the boomers have essentially acted like "We got ours, fuck you" and the class went all to hell at that point. I was amazed at the amount of pent up anger in my fellow students. I'm a good bit older having been out in the world and worked and all but I somewhat agree. The boomers raided our country, fucked the economy all up, raided the education system, outsourced all the good jobs, ran up trillions in debt while simultaneously wrecking our credibility in the Middle East, and now they're retiring and expecting my generation and those after me to support them. People are pissed.

Even your latest response has an overtone of unfair bias and stereotypes. NONE of your 'stats' are worthy of a blog post, certainly aren't worthy of the authenticity you seem to be able to rend out of it. there are racists and the uneducated along every demographic and that spills into every ideology.

It's not a political or even a social issue that we can be educated out of. No blog or religion or politician or scholar or math professor, or psychiatrist, or anyone for that matter will fix this. It's been spoken of by philosophers for thousands of years..still no fix.

Now you're saying it old ppl's fault. When will it ever end with you?

srsly, for every living individual ass-fuck you post about, I can provide one that isn't from the same demographic. If fact (and I can prove it), most of the individuals that you claim to be fuckwads (not your words-but implied) are in fact not.
You want facts and not opinion polls? Then offer it. If you want to speak opinions, the lines are open. We all have one.

You have not provided any proof of anything. Just bigoted diatribe. It has all been based on opinion and anecdotal. You've painted such an ugly picture of ppl that don't deserve your anger.

Google Jon Sundt he fits in your demographic, but does not meet your assessment.

soulsurfer wrote:Even your latest response has an overtone of unfair bias and stereotypes. NONE of your 'stats' are worthy of a blog post, certainly aren't worthy of the authenticity you seem to be able to rend out of it. there are racists and the uneducated along every demographic and that spills into every ideology.

It's not a political or even a social issue that we can be educated out of. No blog or religion or politician or scholar or math professor, or psychiatrist, or anyone for that matter will fix this. It's been spoken of by philosophers for thousands of years..still no fix.

Now you're saying it old ppl's fault. When will it ever end with you?

srsly, for every living individual ass-fuck you post about, I can provide one that isn't from the same demographic. If fact (and I can prove it), most of the individuals that you claim to be fuckwads (not your words-but implied) are in fact not.
You want facts and not opinion polls? Then offer it. If you want to speak opinions, the lines are open. We all have one.

You have not provided any proof of anything. Just bigoted diatribe. It has all been based on opinion and anecdotal. You've painted such an ugly picture of ppl that don't deserve your anger.

Google Jon Sundt he fits in your demographic, but does not meet your assessment.

Good God man...

I think we're speaking two completely different languages.

yes!