Allegations against Manson

[GuitarBilly]

What do you guys think of it?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/arts ... anson.html



My thoughts: probably true given the stroies about him over the years.

But also: needs some kind of evidence. I feel awful for her. I also want her to prove it. Can't be "because she said so".

[fretless]

Proof ..It's a tough battle for the women ,they don't get their fair shake from the law and are often totally dismissed . ERW is now at the top of her game and people may listen to her but she will still need proof . The only real solid is if and when other women come forward . That is happening now . I've seen both honesty and dishonesty in these situations and it's a really tough mess to be in . But in 2021 social smack down will serve it's justice and that is already happening to him .

[TurboPablo]

On it's face, I don't doubt any of it. That dude is fucked up. Whether or not it is proven in court is a different matter.

That said, his label has dropped him and I am fine with it. His music sucks anyway.

[crankyrayhanky]

No way! I find this hard to believe.



said no one ever

[Ry Manchu]

I think that his career as a signed artist is through. He will still have some fans, but he probably won't sell out arenas again. As for ERW, there's probably some truth to her story. She was 19 and he was 38, so the stuff about tying her up and making her beg is probably true. She was with him for 3 or 4 years, so she must have been a willing participant, even if she regrets it now.

I was reading what happened with Burger Records in Portland and it seems to me that there are an awful lot of women that want to be part of the #metoo movement now, that were perfectly willing participants at the time. That being said, those musicians shouldn't have been messing around with 17 year-olds. But the record label folding punishes the fans too.

There may come a time where both parties will need to sign a contract before commencing relations. That said, Manson definitely has issues both mental and drug-related. Any woman with him would know that within days. ERW had to be o.k. with it, at least for a while. Did he cross the line and do inexcusable things? Probably. Will people assume it was terrible because it was Manson. Definitely. Is ERW doing this for her career or because she wants to be a victim's rights champion? In my opinion, if she had come forward when Westworld was at its peak for ratings, I would believe rights champion. After the show has been cancelled and she doesn't have a lot of job offers on the table, not so sure about her motives. Most of what she said sounds like b&d between two consenting adults. Claiming that he raped her while she was drugged, that one is pretty bad. However, his powder of choice does make that difficult.

[ajaxlepinski]

I'm sure Manson used his juice as a 38 year old rock star, to jazz her up, when Wood was 18... and I'm sure she thought she was cool being with him. Nothing criminal about a rock star and a doting fan, of legal age, hooking up.

The article did not say that Wood didn't want to be tied up or teased with the violet wand... Wood only said it happened.

She was strong enough to leave him (more than once) when he yelled at her so, why did she keep going back?

Not that anyone should yell or threaten another person but, I'm guessing that she may have used him too.
Maybe she allowed him to do kinky things because she wanted him to think she was 'cool'? The article does not say Manson ignored a "NO!" from Wood.
Perhaps, what thrilled her as a younger woman now, embarrasses her?

"In 2018, the actress Charlyne Yi accused Manson abused her in Tweets that have since been deleted".
"Dan Cleary, who said that he had worked as an assistant to Mr. Manson for several years said he witnessed Manson being abusive" but, did not say what it was that Manson did that he considered to be abusive.
I'm sure he's into freaky shit but, yelling at someone isn't illegal.

There aren't enough details in the article to make any kind of an assessment.
Maybe, Manson will wind up in jail like Phil Spector but, this article isn't damning enough.

Did Manson's record label have information that wasn't presented in the article?

Chuck Berry used to video tape himself and his partner, in bed, smiling and waving at the camera before having sex.
They would turn the camera off before proceeding but, Chuck knew he needed to protect himself.

[Ostinato Rubato]

I'm sure Manson used his juice as a 38 year old rock star, to jazz her up, when Wood was 18... and I'm sure she thought she was cool being with him. Nothing criminal about a rock star and a doting fan, of legal age, hooking up.

The article did not say that Wood didn't want to be tied up or teased with the violet wand... Wood only said it happened.

She was strong enough to leave him (more than once) when he yelled at her so, why did she keep going back?

Not that anyone should yell or threaten another person but, I'm guessing that she may have used him too.
Maybe she allowed him to do kinky things because she wanted him to think she was 'cool'?
Perhaps, what thrilled her as a younger woman now, embarrasses her?

"In 2018, the actress Charlyne Yi accused Manson abused her in Tweets that have since been deleted".
"Dan Cleary, who said that he had worked as an assistant to Mr. Manson for several years said he witnessed Manson being abusive" but, did not say what it was that Manson did that he considered to be abusive.
I'm sure he's into freaky shit but, yelling at someone isn't illegal.

There aren't enough details in the article to make any kind of an assessment.
Maybe, Manson will wind up in jail like Phil Spector but, this article isn't damning enough.
Did Manson's label have information that wasn't presented in the article?

I have a similar take. I'm a little confused cause it really just comes off like he was a bad partner/husband, and I'm not exactly reading anything actionable legally. There must be more to the story... or not... we're in a time where men taking advantage of their status to obtain sex from women is seen in and of itself a form of abuse. The term "grooming" becomes more and more semantically overloaded these days too. Without specifics being given I'm choosing to read it as a synonym for "flirting" in this case.

Manson is clearly an asshole though and probably was abusive and dominating in his relationships. I'm sure he was heavy into kinky shit and obviously drugs, and he was living a caricatured life of sin and blasphemy. His art is full of violence, dark themes, questionable morality, etc. so everything I read in that article seemed par for the course.

This is a cautionary tale for your daughters from what I can tell. Women and men (but mostly women) risk fooling themselves into falling in love with a caricature of a person and finding themselves in an unhealthy and abusive relationship. Or at least, the actual risks are higher for women in many ways.

This lady was a child actress living a life of celebrity culture from an early age. She came of age connected and on showbiz's radar. Showbiz is a gross world that does actually "groom" the young to take advantage of them, especially women. There are probably many ways in which she went from one gross way of life right into another one, both standing on a red carpet.

In the wise words of John Mayer, "Fathers be good to your daughters". And keep them out of the world of fame and let them know that if they play with druggy-heathen fire they're highly likely to get their dumb asses burned.

[facefirst]

It’s always the one you most expect.

[itchyfingers]

Was never a fan, don't really care. What I don't agree with - labels and sponsors dropping a guy who is just living the lifestyle he always portrayed because someone made some allegations of a personality that are also completely in line with the guy they knew he was.

[madkeithv]

She was strong enough to leave him (more than once) when he yelled at her so, why did she keep going back?

Not sure I'm ready to get into this too much in public, but if you've been in an abusive relationship, then the "why" is not a mystery. It's wrong, it's fucked up, but your brain does really weird things when you think you're in love and/or think you're dependent on the other person. Coercive control and gaslighting are powerful when you are vulnerable.

Add what's quite possibly narcissistic personality disorder which I have second-hand experience with, and it gets really, really hairy.


That being said I
a) believe most of it is true, but that's probably because I've always really disliked Manson as well.
b) don't believe that it's right to have all these consequences without evidence. That might seem strange considering the above, but there needs to be actual evidence, and while I understand waiting years because of trauma, no evidence is no conviction.

[Zozobra]

I agree that no evidence = no conviction, however, if we're supporting that argument we have to accept that we do a shitty job of helping victims gather evidence to validate their claims. The point of her (and others) coming forward at the senate (or whatever it was) hearing a few years ago where she did all but name him was to open up dialogue about how the authorities need to take this more seriously and how the current statute of limitations is inadequate and needs to be extended for domestic abuse.

While I'm not in the US (I can't say if it's better/worse here or what that would even mean), I know that people here have had difficulty being taken seriously by the police when they've reported abuse or rape. During lockdown domestic abuse has rocketed and it's come to light recently that my local police just ignored the reports and covered up having ever received them. Imaging going through something that damaging and traumatic and then being neglected by the system. It goes someway into why many victims of abuse just suffer in silence and may only come forward many years after they've escaped their abuser. If the police to investigate but make a mess of it then the CPS (equivalent of the district attorney I guess?) won't push for prosecution if they think it won't land a conviction.

Legal system aside, unless you have either been abused in this way or have been close to someone who has, it's hard to understand the victims situation/behaviours from a purely rational standpoint. It's very easy to say 'why not just leave or go to the police?' as you're trying to rationalise an intentionally irrational situation which has been carefully constructed by the abuser. It's very difficult to explain what going through lovebomb/isolation cycles is like and then being gaslight about it afterwards; you can't trust your own mind. You have been groomed to not trust your own mind and memory of things - only your abuser gets to define reality. Abusers who work in this way are careful in their choice of victim. They'll spend time finding someone who is vulnerable who they can manipulate while being nice as pie to everyone else, they'll ply them with love and attention and they'll slowly strip them of their external support network (friends/family). Once they've done that they will start slowly stripping them of their self worth, and much like the frog in the pan, the victim wont notice the minor transgressions and often they will actively want to seek their abusers approval/validation which strengthens their grip. This is how an abuser gets people to do things beyond their boundaries/limits and why consent gets messy. Once someone is free they can see it clear as fuckin' day, which often makes them feel like shit for falling for it in the first place.

Be wary of any overly charismatic person who is plying anyone close to you with intoxicating attention; they may be trying to groom them for abuse. Know the signs.


Is Mazza guilty? Almost certainly - he's written and spoken about abusing people many times. People shrugged it off like it was just part of his wacky persona. Nope, it was real. In the UK we had a notorious paedophile in the media who was hiding in plane sight for decades. People thought he was joking; he wasn't.

[Devin]

Would not surprise me if it's true - at least to some extent. Dude has always come across as an absolute fuckhead

[Pepi]

He gives me the CREEPS

[Devin]

Is it just me that finds it funny that a guy named Marilyn was dating a chick named Evan?

[Yarbicus]

Wes Borland isn't pulling any punches here:

https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/02/03/f ... cking-guy/

[nightflameauto]

Wes Borland isn't pulling any punches here:

https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/02/03/f ... cking-guy/

His story of Manson trying to choke him out on stage reminded me there used to be a video out there of Manson, mid song, running across the stage and doing a flying double kick into John5. Of course, everyone at the time said it was staged even though you could see John looking like he was gonna swing his tele at Manson's head before the camera cut away. Wonder how often he attacked his band-mates mid gig?

[K-Bizzle]

Not surprised and not because of any of the stupid theatrical imagery stuff (I mean lets be real, this has always been fake af anyway) but just from the way it seems like he treats his band and people around him.

I remember that video of John 5 all but wanting to fight him on stage once and John has always seemed like the most chill dude (could be wrong, never met the guy).

Don't have much to add that hasn't been said already, sad to see. Hopefully the truth will be made apparent but honestly I don't see why she would lie at this point. She's near the height of her career so its not like she needs this for recognition or something.

[K-Bizzle]

Wes Borland isn't pulling any punches here:

https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/02/03/f ... cking-guy/

His story of Manson trying to choke him out on stage reminded me there used to be a video out there of Manson, mid song, running across the stage and doing a flying double kick into John5. Of course, everyone at the time said it was staged even though you could see John looking like he was gonna swing his tele at Manson's head before the camera cut away. Wonder how often he attacked his band-mates mid gig?

Ha great minds brother.

That shit did not look staged at fucking all, these guys are musicians not actors. John 5 legit wanted to fucking murder him, you could see the entire dynamic of their relationship in that short video even without hearing a single word. Body language speaks fucking volumes.

[primeholy]

Would not surprise me if it's true - at least to some extent. Dude has always come across as an absolute fuckhead

Hell yeah. He’s almost as sleazy as this dude devin I know.
Wait....wat?


I never have liked Manson, but I don’t want him shit on unless it’s legit.

[ajaxlepinski]

She was strong enough to leave him (more than once) when he yelled at her so, why did she keep going back?

Not sure I'm ready to get into this too much in public, but if you've been in an abusive relationship, then the "why" is not a mystery. It's wrong, it's fucked up, but your brain does really weird things when you think you're in love and/or think you're dependent on the other person. Coercive control and gaslighting are powerful when you are vulnerable.

Add what's quite possibly narcissistic personality disorder which I have second-hand experience with, and it gets really, really hairy.


That being said I
a) believe most of it is true, but that's probably because I've always really disliked Manson as well.
b) don't believe that it's right to have all these consequences without evidence. That might seem strange considering the above, but there needs to be actual evidence, and while I understand waiting years because of trauma, no evidence is no conviction.

There's no need to get into details here - I'm sure that you understand what happens in an abusive relationship and I accept your opinion on the Manson/Wood relationship as being objective.

I dislike Manson too and I'm certainly not supporting his alleged behavior with Wood.
I'm absolutely certain that he believes himself to be a godlike, super-genius and I'm sure I would be nauseated if I ever had to spend time with him.

I firmly believe that something happened (more than once) to make Wood dislike Manson enough to accuse him publicly.
Nevertheless, Wood wasn't a runaway teen who was taken advantage of by someone offering food, clothing and shelter.
As Rubato pointed out, she was a Hollywood kid and I don't believe she was naïve, innocent or inexperienced... and she was not without outside support.
Wood and Manson weren't married, they didn't have any children and she didn't need his money.
This is why I am of the opinion that, they were into mutually consensual, kinky activities... but now, she has grown to become greatly ashamed of those activities. It's not implausible to conclude, that she has recently done some mental gymnastics, to protect her self-esteem, and is now blaming it all on Manson.

I can honestly say that I don't really understand why people stay in abusive relationships.
Of course, I have read about those reasons and I have witnessed friends who were involved in bad relationships.
Personally, I'd rather be single than in a crappy relationship. I've dated plenty of women but, I didn't get into a serious, long-term relationship until I was 45 because, I just wouldn't put up with any of their shit.... and 99% of them give you shit. When someone wanted to dump me, I let them go... I know it was futile to try to get them back... I guess Wood really had Manson's interest for him to call her 158 times.... they must have been into some deep shit.

[fretless]

as of today he's been booted from just about all of his upcoming gigs . American Gods , the label etc etc . Seems like folks have sided with ERW in the last 48 hrs or so . I mean "Manson" it's right there in the name peoples . Fuck you Manson .

[ZEEGLER]

I've never been a fan of Manson. Seems like he stole his entire schtick, and it was always trying way too hard IMO. Did he abuse her? Who knows. When relationships go sour, people exaggerate or just plain make stuff up. In this day and age, anyone who suffers this type of alleged abuse and doesn't leave right away and get the police involved, well anything after the first time, it's kinda your own fault. That said, he's a slimy fuckin dude, and I wouldn't put it past him. Hopefully his career is in the toilet and I wont have to see his stupid face anymore.

[Zozobra]

Man Has Spine Removed To Bend Over Backward Defending Marilyn Manson

HUNTINGTON, N.Y — Part-time barista and avid Marilyn Manson fan, Scuff Leeway underwent an invasive spine removal surgery in an effort to reach batshit arguments in defense of the aging shock rocker against recent claims of abuse, exasperated sources report.

“This was an incredible feat of medical science,” said Dr. Jay Dixon-Chiu, who specializes in such rare procedures as total laminectomies. “With the patient’s spine totally removed he should be able to bend over completely backwards to defend a man who has openly bragged about abusing women for years. I feel like the success of this procedure should open the door for even more men to augment their ability to dismiss atrocities carried out by their junior high idols.”

Leeway, who has no health insurance or shame, has gone to extraordinary lengths over the years to defend and emulate Brian Warner, better known by stage name Marilyn Manson.

“I’ve been a Manson fan for years, he’s inspired me to experiment with body modification and gaslighting,” stated Leeway from his hospital bed following the surgery to remove the pesky backbone which had been preventing him from rationalizing away the various claims of abuse against the 90’s icon. “I have always dyed my hair, pierced my flesh and worn corpse paint like Manson. I even gained 35 pounds on a diet of nothing but red wine. Removing a bone, that’s the big one, but it’s tough being a man these days and someone’s gotta stick up for those super rich and famous little guys who have the ability to abuse their power unchallenged for years.”

Leeway’s former coworker and Facebook friend, Trina Banerjee, is not at all surprised to learn of the lengths he went through.

“Anyone with a brain and basic decency would struggle to reach the talking points this idiot insists on shouting out into the internet void if they had any semblance of a backbone, so I guess he did what he had to do,” Banerjee stated. “Hopefully all of his ribs are still intact and he accidentally cracks one reaching for his podcast equipment tomorrow or something. One can hope.”

At press time, Leeway was said to be making a full recovery and according to Dr. Dixon will be “berating women on Twitter again in a matter of days.”

“Anyone with a brain and basic decency would struggle to reach the talking points this idiot insists on shouting out into the internet void if they had any semblance of a backbone, so I guess he did what he had to do,” Banerjee stated. “Hopefully all of his ribs are still intact and he accidentally cracks one reaching for his podcast equipment tomorrow or something. One can hope.”

At press time, Leeway was said to be making a full recovery and according to Dr. Dixon will be “berating women on Twitter again in a matter of days.”

[Devin]

Wes Borland isn't pulling any punches here:

https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/02/03/f ... cking-guy/

His story of Manson trying to choke him out on stage reminded me there used to be a video out there of Manson, mid song, running across the stage and doing a flying double kick into John5. Of course, everyone at the time said it was staged even though you could see John looking like he was gonna swing his tele at Manson's head before the camera cut away. Wonder how often he attacked his band-mates mid gig?

Ha great minds brother.

That shit did not look staged at fucking all, these guys are musicians not actors. John 5 legit wanted to fucking murder him, you could see the entire dynamic of their relationship in that short video even without hearing a single word. Body language speaks fucking volumes.

Yup, I lost any shred of respect I had for MM when I saw that vid. I have met John before and he was cool as hell, too. That vid pisses me off

[Devin]

Would not surprise me if it's true - at least to some extent. Dude has always come across as an absolute fuckhead

Hell yeah. He’s almost as sleazy as this dude devin I know.
Wait....wat?