Seattle is Dying

[fretless]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw[/youtube]

Our city is right behind them . I think it can be fixed before we sink further . I'm sure this could go political real fast so refrain if you will but yeah we do need them to help solve this , what are the chances ...but I think it's important to see it .

[Yarbicus]

That video is a hit piece financed by the financial elite in the city. Not dating there are no problems, but there is all out was between the city council and the wealthy with the police caught in the middle.

[Yarbicus]

You also need to take the comments from disgruntled police officers with a grain of salt since they are currently out of compliance with a general consent decree due to excessive use if force.

[fretless]

I r cornfused but deception is part of the game

[clipless bumper]

An hour+??!!??


Someone besides fretless or Yarb summarize this for me.

[***1776***]

There are big issues with MANY larger inner cities and when you say "something that's not so nice" (AKA baltimore) the dopey race card is brought out and people want to name call and shut things down instead of a HONEST DISCUSSION


There are many reasons, I have a friend who left there after living for 11 years and said its a shithole turning into a swap (exact quote) he made a good wage and living but said said he couldn't wait to get back to the east coast


There is something to the broken windows theory imo and you start with enforcing crimes and getting people help. Look at the highlites of the guy Travis (15 minute mark) and how he wasted hours of police manpower hours because the police hands were tied and couldn't do shit. That's the lack of leadership in city hall, we have this happening in NYC with Diblasio, the cops hate his guts and they know he wont have their back. Listen to the people who yelled at the city council when he said call 911, that old lady wanted to punch his lights out


Again there are MANY reasons but it starts with different ideology and leadership from the top imo


PS... This is a important topic and should have a honest discussion

[clipless bumper]

Thanks '76 - this sounds like what NYC had cycled through from the '70's to the later '90's to now.

[Yarbicus]

I haven't seen much race blaming in Seattle. It is more about "all homeless people are crazy and criminals." Definitely more about class than race here.

Affordable housing is a major issue here. A single family home averages almost $600k and rent is off the charts. Hell, the amount I pay for my mortgage is crippling but my home value has gone up by 50% in 4 years.

[clipless bumper]

I haven't seen much race blaming in Seattle. It is more about "all homeless people are crazy and criminals." Definitely more about class than race here.......

You seem quite sheltered - or maybe you are reading a limited subset of media.

[Yarbicus]

I haven't seen much race blaming in Seattle. It is more about "all homeless people are crazy and criminals." Definitely more about class than race here.......

You seem quite sheltered - or maybe you are reading a limited subset of media.

Hardly sheltered and I read fucking everything. Watch the video and you will see that, around here, it is about class not race. I guess that is what makes us so "liberal." We don't care what color you are, we just hate the poor.

We definitely have racism. A large portion of my students were actually terrified the day after the last presidential election. But the battle the OP video focuses on is not so much about race. It is definitely Socialism vs Capitalism since there is a for real Socialist (not the Democratic Socialist flavor) on the Seattle City Council. You can see her in the video, too. She is the one being shouted down by the guys building all of Amazon's new buildings.

[clipless bumper]

........I guess that is what makes us so "liberal." We don't care what color you are, we just hate the poor........

[Ostinato Rubato]

This is what happens when you implement “compassionate” policies that sound good from an upper-middle class perch, as you peer down at the masses thinking you can be their benevolent Jesus. Billboard dreams.

Human nature will set up shop right on top of systemic weak spots and hang it’s dick out.

[GuitarBilly]

Guys, we all know the stance on political threads here, so let's keep this civilized or it will get locked.


I have no idea what the situation in Seattle really is. I'm sure there are issues. But I'm also sure there's exaggeration/propaganda on both sides of the argument.

One city I'm familiar with is Baltimore, which I visited about 10 times the past few months and yeah some parts of that city are really ghetto/rundown. But there are a lot of safe and nice neighborhoods too. The way they talk about it in some media reports make sound like it's the wild west there and it's just not true.
I'd have no issues living in some of the neighborhoods I visited/played at. Obviously, there are areas that must be avoided. But that's not that different from most large cities. You can't judge L.A. by visiting the skid row or Panorama City, for example.
I've made quite a few friends in Baltimore now and while they all acknowledge there are issues, none of them feel like the apocalypse is upon them and disagree with the way the city is being portrayed by some.

So who knows. I'd much rather talk to a local or see it for myself than base my conclusion on a video or media outlet, which is very likely to have an agenda.

[sleewell]

I love that clipless is telling someone who lives there that they are wrong based on his days spent watching fox news or some biased documentary instead of experiences based on actually living somewhere for decades.

The invasion is coming! All millennials are homeless bums ruining big cities! Big cities are infested! Immigrants working at meat packing plant are going to replace you because they are so evil! Fear! Hatred of the other!

[BroSlinger]

Guys, we all know the stance on political threads here, so let's keep this civilized or it will get locked.


I have no idea what the situation in Seattle really is. I'm sure there are issues. But I'm also sure there's exaggeration/propaganda on both sides of the argument.

One city I'm familiar with is Baltimore, which I visited about 10 times the past few months and yeah some parts of that city are really ghetto/rundown. But there are a lot of safe and nice neighborhoods too. The way they talk about it in some media reports make sound like it's the wild west there and it's just not true.
I'd have no issues living in some of the neighborhoods I visited/played at. Obviously, there are areas that must be avoided. But that's not that different from most large cities. You can't judge L.A. by visiting the skid row or Panorama City, for example.
I've made quite a few friends in Baltimore now and while they all acknowledge there are issues, none of them feel like the apocalypse is upon them and disagree with the way the city is being portrayed by some.

So who knows. I'd much rather talk to a local or see it for myself than base my conclusion on a video or media outlet, which is very likely to have an agenda.

Good post.

I was in Ireland during the Ferguson riots. They thought our entire country was burning. Amazing what the news media can do.

[newholland]

This is what happens when you implement “compassionate” policies that sound good from an upper-middle class perch, as you peer down at the masses thinking you can be their benevolent Jesus. Billboard dreams.

Human nature will set up shop right on top of systemic weak spots and hang it’s dick out.

just a query then: what's the alternative? class eradication? shift the problem elsewhere? ignore it?

i get it. and have seen portland and seattle that basically don't enforce homeless regs. but fixing the economic system that makes rents exorbitant and wages low is a significant challenge too..

not tryna start a scrap at all-- but tbh, we can discuss it, but the fixes aren't guitar forum strata serious systemic clusterfuck!

[Marc G]

the only solution is...

[Ry Manchu]

Guys, we all know the stance on political threads here, so let's keep this civilized or it will get locked.


I have no idea what the situation in Seattle really is. I'm sure there are issues. But I'm also sure there's exaggeration/propaganda on both sides of the argument.

One city I'm familiar with is Baltimore, which I visited about 10 times the past few months and yeah some parts of that city are really ghetto/rundown. But there are a lot of safe and nice neighborhoods too. The way they talk about it in some media reports make sound like it's the wild west there and it's just not true.
I'd have no issues living in some of the neighborhoods I visited/played at. Obviously, there are areas that must be avoided. But that's not that different from most large cities. You can't judge L.A. by visiting the skid row or Panorama City, for example.
I've made quite a few friends in Baltimore now and while they all acknowledge there are issues, none of them feel like the apocalypse is upon them and disagree with the way the city is being portrayed by some.

So who knows. I'd much rather talk to a local or see it for myself than base my conclusion on a video or media outlet, which is very likely to have an agenda.

I don't know too much about Seattle, so I don't have to much to add to this thread. However, I do know a little about Baltimore. The State of Maryland is having to make hard cuts to the budget right now. But it has a decently growing economy and job market. It has a pretty good school system. The port has really been doing a lot of volume lately. There are parts of the city that look like war zones. There are also lots of very nice areas. The unemployment rate is higher than most of the country. The poverty rate is high. There are way too many homicides. The thirtieth largest city should not be fifth in crime. It cannot be fixed in a year or two. But I do think it can be fixed. It starts with banks willing to invest in people that want to fix the run down areas instead of making the suburbs extend farther from the city center. You can do both, but you can't do only the latter.

[fretless]

I'm from B-more , born and raised . I call L.A. home now but I still love that place . However crime has always been a problem there and D.C. I'm no stranger to it . My father also born and raised there in the 50's was shot 5 times when he was 19 working at a gas station when he returned home from Nam was recon there, never shot once , shot at though yes . 2 of the bullets stayed in him until the day he died . On another sad note but crime related ... My mother was murdered when I was 12 . Home invasion in Bel Air Md. unsolved to this day . happened in 1981 . R.I.P. folks and good luck B-more .

[neilrocks25]

I'm from B-more , born and raised . I call L.A. home now but I still love that place . However crime has always been a problem there and D.C. I'm no stranger to it . My father also born and raised there in the 50's was shot 5 times when he was 19 working at a gas station when he returned home from Nam was recon there, never shot once , shot at though yes . 2 of the bullets stayed in him until the day he died . On another sad note but crime related ... My mother was murdered when I was 12 . Home invasion in Bel Air Md. unsolved to this day . happened in 1981 . R.I.P. folks and good luck B-more .

Wow sorry to hear about your family.

[fretless]

Thanks man

[GuitarBilly]

That is awful man. Sorry to hear that.

[fretless]

Thanks man , indeed , life stuff you know.. makes you who you are . I'm 100% my parents and proud of it . Anything can happen at anytime +/- we are just hanging on for the ride .

[Ostinato Rubato]

This is what happens when you implement “compassionate” policies that sound good from an upper-middle class perch, as you peer down at the masses thinking you can be their benevolent Jesus. Billboard dreams.

Human nature will set up shop right on top of systemic weak spots and hang it’s dick out.

just a query then: what's the alternative? class eradication? shift the problem elsewhere? ignore it?

i get it. and have seen portland and seattle that basically don't enforce homeless regs. but fixing the economic system that makes rents exorbitant and wages low is a significant challenge too..

not tryna start a scrap at all-- but tbh, we can discuss it, but the fixes aren't guitar forum strata serious systemic clusterfuck!

I don't say what I said to take a hard stance. I'm definitely more on the "compassion" side in terms of my general thinking. But these things need nuance. One of the things I really didn't like about the video is how the issue was framed around drugs being a core issue. Drugs aren't necessarily the core issue. The core issue is that we have a federal policy on drugs that makes it nearly impossible to implement effective "compassionate" drug policies on the local level.

What we need to do is follow the lead of places like Portugal and Switzerland who have addressed the drug issue on the national level and have seriously cleaned up their streets in regards to drug related issues and crime. In Switzerland in particular, they have really paved the way for any country who wants to see what effective compassionate policy can do.

But this... this is sloppy and ineffective and it comes on the tail of a certain type of ideological thinking that CLEARLY has not been conscious enough about how human nature will capitalize on systemic weaknesses, like not allowing cops to enforce laws and releasing offenders within days to continue their pattern of behavior - which continues to be "successful" for their aims of getting high and surviving in camps. All of our politicians need to level-up on Game Theory. They would see ahead of time more often how policies might fail in the medium to long term.

[newholland]

Guys, we all know the stance on political threads here, so let's keep this civilized or it will get locked.


I have no idea what the situation in Seattle really is. I'm sure there are issues. But I'm also sure there's exaggeration/propaganda on both sides of the argument.

One city I'm familiar with is Baltimore, which I visited about 10 times the past few months and yeah some parts of that city are really ghetto/rundown. But there are a lot of safe and nice neighborhoods too. The way they talk about it in some media reports make sound like it's the wild west there and it's just not true.
I'd have no issues living in some of the neighborhoods I visited/played at. Obviously, there are areas that must be avoided. But that's not that different from most large cities. You can't judge L.A. by visiting the skid row or Panorama City, for example.
I've made quite a few friends in Baltimore now and while they all acknowledge there are issues, none of them feel like the apocalypse is upon them and disagree with the way the city is being portrayed by some.

So who knows. I'd much rather talk to a local or see it for myself than base my conclusion on a video or media outlet, which is very likely to have an agenda.

I don't know too much about Seattle, so I don't have to much to add to this thread. However, I do know a little about Baltimore. The State of Maryland is having to make hard cuts to the budget right now. But it has a decently growing economy and job market. It has a pretty good school system. The port has really been doing a lot of volume lately. There are parts of the city that look like war zones. There are also lots of very nice areas. The unemployment rate is higher than most of the country. The poverty rate is high. There are way too many homicides. The thirtieth largest city should not be fifth in crime. It cannot be fixed in a year or two. But I do think it can be fixed. It starts with banks willing to invest in people that want to fix the run down areas instead of making the suburbs extend farther from the city center. You can do both, but you can't do only the latter.

i live in maryland, work in maryland, and work for the state of maryland. they're not making cuts - they're actually giving out raises for the first time in five years to state employees and doling out more money. but yeah, the infrastructure in that city is a mess, no doubt.

but it's a tough sell to rebuild inner city balmer just because.. well.. it's not a state priority over the wealthy beach towns, montgomery county and it's DC riches, and anywhere the money is.