Murder or Stand Your Ground? Florida Edition 2.0

[Dave]

The now dead guy was pretty violent when he threw the guy to the ground. He was continuing to bear down on the guy on the ground, and the girlfriend got out of her car to confront the guy as well.

I don't believe the shooter would have fared well had he not had a gun. It appears the now dead guy was about to pummel the shit out of him.

On one hand we can all make judgment calls about how fast the now dead guy was retreating but we should all remember that anytime one draws a firearm it should be done with the intent to kill. Using a gun as a threat to scare people away is not what they teach in CHL classes.

So the guy on the ground is pulling his gun from an inconvenient position and probably just took a second to aim the gun at the threat. The threat realized, too late, that he was about to get shot and started to turn.

It's not like he was out there to deescalate the guy yelling about a parking spot. He was storming out for a fight. He got one. With a bullet. He lost because gun guy had more horsepower. Ryan put it best on FB... the guy's body language indicated he was an aggressive threat.




Of course if you don't go around playing Paul Blart parking lot cop then you have less of a chance of this happening. On the other hand bullies deciding to push around smaller people should also be shot. Sucks to suck.



tl; dr I enjoyed watching it

[madryan]

Think about this...

If homeboy is on blood thinners (I am now that I have a prosthetic heart valve) then rolling around on the ground with some D-Bag who clearly out-weighs you by 60lbs could easily be fatal. If you're on blood thinners and they're running your INR really high even a trivial bump on the head on the pavement can be fatal.

So say, you're on blood thinners because of some freak accident, or whatever like my condition, and you're walking down the street and someone tries to hit you with a skateboard. That's a potentially deadly assault. One solid hit to the head and you're at best, eating stewed veggies through a straw the rest of your life, and at worst laying there in a bed while your family decides whether or not to unplug you.

Fuck no. I got better shit to do with the rest of my life.

That said despite having a CHL I almost never bother to carry.

[Kardula]

Without knowing how Florida laws work, I'd like to know what consequences there are for being an instigator in the confrontation. Knowing the shooter has no duty to retreat even if available seems like it would allow people to start a fight, then shoot someone and claim self defense unless instigating the confrontation allows for mitigating circumstances with which to alleviate the protections of stand your ground.

In the video we do see that the guy who did the shoving goes up to the shooter and starts to pull up his pants slightly, this is something I've seen in a lot of street fights, it indicates to me that the shover was ready to start fighting. Shooter then reaches for the gun, but it's unclear exactly how much time and what was said between reaching, drawing, aiming, and shooting. These factors can can sway my opinion in one direction or another.

If it's true that the shooter has a history of approaching people illegally parked and has even drawn a gun on them before, this can establish a behavior pattern that might not be protected by the stand your ground law (again, i don't know the specifics of florida)

Seems we agree that neither party acted like a fucking adult.

[GuitarBilly]

The now dead guy was pretty violent when he threw the guy to the ground. He was continuing to bear down on the guy on the ground, and the girlfriend got out of her car to confront the guy as well.

I don't believe the shooter would have fared well had he not had a gun. It appears the now dead guy was about to pummel the shit out of him.

On one hand we can all make judgment calls about how fast the now dead guy was retreating but we should all remember that anytime one draws a firearm it should be done with the intent to kill. Using a gun as a threat to scare people away is not what they teach in CHL classes.

So the guy on the ground is pulling his gun from an inconvenient position and probably just took a second to aim the gun at the threat. The threat realized, too late, that he was about to get shot and started to turn.

It's not like he was out there to deescalate the guy yelling about a parking spot. He was storming out for a fight. He got one. With a bullet. He lost because gun guy had more horsepower. Ryan put it best on FB... the guy's body language indicated he was an aggressive threat.




Of course if you don't go around playing Paul Blart parking lot cop then you have less of a chance of this happening. On the other hand bullies deciding to push around smaller people should also be shot. Sucks to suck.



tl; dr I enjoyed watching it

Yeah I sort of agree. I don't know if I would've reacted differently if I get out of a store and someone is screaming at my wife but yeah... it was assault and FL law allows you to shoot someone who assaulted you if you are afraid of him.

So it's legal. No doubt. Still doesn't seem right to me but that opinion and 5 bucks would get me a cup of coffee.

[Dave]

I personally don’t own a gun to start fights with people in public. I don’t even carry mine.

But I don’t have a problem with shooting bullies like that.



If I came out of a store and someone was yelling at michelle like that I’d confront them verbally for sure. His method was way aggressive and it cost him. Sucks to suck.

[GuitarBilly]

Without knowing how Florida laws work, I'd like to know what consequences there are for being an instigator in the confrontation.

None, really. It's the same case with Zimmerman. He started but it was Martin who took it to the physical level (based on the injuries Zimmerman sustained).
You can argue (verbally) all you want but as soon as someone lays a hand on the other party, the stand your ground law applies. I had my dad explain this to me when the Zimmerman case was going on (he's an attorney) and he predicted the outcome of that case to a T. I will ask about this one but I think I know the answer...

[Dave]

My dad said the same thing on Zimmerman...

[Ry Manchu]

One of my cousins is a sheriff in the county that this happened in. I can ask him about it, if you guys really want to know.

[Ostinato Rubato]

This is why I run from fights that aren't important.

[Dave]

One of my cousins is a sheriff in the county that this happened in. I can ask him about it, if you guys really want to know.

That'd be awesome

[mortatone]

I get that the shooter guy was probably legally protected to fire when he did, but I still think there should be some caveat in the way the law is written that will hold accountability for instigating a hostile situation in the first place. I don't know how it could be written but there has to be some sort of accountability for starting shit when you're packing.

[Dave]

Yelling at a car 5-7 feet away isn’t the same as throwing someone to the ground and bowing up on them

Dead guy was hostile af which is why he earned his dead status.

[GuitarBilly]

I get that the shooter guy was probably legally protected to fire when he did, but I still think there should be some caveat in the way the law is written that will hold accountability for instigating a hostile situation in the first place. I don't know how it could be written but there has to be some sort of accountability for starting shit when you're packing.

well... we don't know what's going to happen. FL has strong civil laws against false arrests, especially when stand your ground is involved. So cops almost never arrest right away when stand your ground seems plausible. Instead, they take the case to a DA who can now decide whether to charge, dismiss or convene a grand jury to decide on indictment. So this might not be over yet. But a conviction in this case under FL is very unlikely. He might still be indicted though (as was Zimmerman).

[Noah]

So who was that second guy who jumped behind a car when he saw the gun? What was his deal?

[ajaxlepinski]

Here's a complete, uninterupted video, complete with ominous background soundtrack....
https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand-you ... e-sheriff/

[Noah]

Here's a complete, uninterupted video, complete with ominous background soundtrack....
https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand-you ... e-sheriff/

I think it might be fair to say that what Drejka was doing was menacing. The woman was stuck in her car with a toddler and an infant. He's looming above her and waving his finger. Whatever he was saying, it was enough that a bystander went inside and alerted the clerk.

In that case McGlockton was justified in using force including blindsiding a man possibly on blood thinners and pouring his brains out on the sidewalk. My guess is once he saw how easily Drejka went down he felt bad for a moment, paused, and that little bit of humanity is what got him killed.

[mortatone]

Looking at it again, there's nothing in the video to suggest the shooter was being extremely verbally aggressive enough to warrant the shoving, and that wasn't just a light push. Would be nice to have audio....

[madryan]

So who was that second guy who jumped behind a car when he saw the gun? What was his deal?

Dude saw a gun... Smart of him to GTFO...

[Noah]

So who was that second guy who jumped behind a car when he saw the gun? What was his deal?

Dude saw a gun... Smart of him to GTFO...

Sure.

[crankyrayhanky]

Seemed kind of murder-ish yet apparently legal in Fla
Was the shooter more aggressive due to the pusher being black?
Would the pusher act so pushy if the other guy was 6 8 260?
Why is every news commentator look like they're trying real hard to suppress their excited smiles?!

Ugh

[Pepi]

I don't know. This could be argued for years. I've been pushed down many times in my life but never once thought it would deserve to kill a man. Like I said before ... I would have pulled my gun on him but once I saw the man backing off I would leave it at that. If he came at me again .... BANG

[Devin]

Maybe he shoved the guy to the ground while simultaneously shouting "I'm gonna kill you!"

[Pepi]

Maybe he shoved the guy to the ground while simultaneously shouting "I'm gonna kill you!"

Good point Video without audio can make a good argument

[Noah]

Maybe drejka said something about his gun.

[GuitarBilly]

I don't know. This could be argued for years. I've been pushed down many times in my life but never once thought it would deserve to kill a man.

I agree. Anyone who goes from screaming at a woman and toddler over a parking spot he doesn't even need to shooting someone for being pushed down is not a stable person in my book.
Not that it's ok to park on handicap or push someone but his reactions are way overboard in both stances. This guy is a piece of shit, no doubt.

However, that's my opinion, not the law.

At the end of the day, it's a good thing when police follows the law and not opinions, even when it's laws we don't agree with. The opposite (arrests based on opinions) is a far worse option in the long run.

We can argue the moral issue all day long but the fact is in FL if you're assaulted or even credibly threatened, you're allowed to shoot.