b5 Chords

[Mamberg Jr]

Where Do you use them??? They never sound good when I try to use them

[ajaxlepinski]

Major Chords and Pentatonic for life, MOFOs!!!

[Marc G]

any time I want to look all intellectual... the trick i to play it then instead of giving a panicked look when it sounds bad... you give a look of utter disgust to the rest of the players to let them know they fucked up and to try harder to keep up with you

[Ostinato Rubato]

They work as transitional chords in a progression. Play around with Gmin, Dmaj, Cmin, and Ebmin b5 (Eb diminished) in various orders and feel how that diminished chord fits in.

[Ostinato Rubato]

To answer the question I only really use them in the Latin Yacht Rock fusion bullshit I do, cause there's more of those diminished chords in traditional Latin styles of music like Salsa/Mambo and Tango. Plenty of them in classical compositions though too. Especially post Romantic era, Beethoven and beyond.

[thisguy]

If it's a half-diminshed (b5 but the 7th of the chord is a whole step down from the root) a common use in a jazz/blues chord progression would be a half-diminished to an altered V chord to a minor i. For example = Eb5,7 (half-diminished) - A7,#5,b9,#9 - Dm#7 (with a major 7th). Sorry, I'm not sure how to insert the correct chord symbols. The notes would be E-G-Bb-D then A-C#-E#(F)-G-Bb-C then D-F-A-C#. You probably won't use all of those altered notes on the altered V but that gives some ideas about what notes are typically used.

[thisguy]

To answer the question I only really use them in the Latin Yacht Rock fusion bullshit I do, cause there's more of those diminished chords in traditional Latin styles of music like Salsa/Mambo and Tango. Plenty of them in classical compositions though too. Especially post Romantic era, Beethoven and beyond.

You'll definitely find it in Latin music. Blue Bossa is a Jazz standard that uses iib5,7 chords.

[video]https://youtu.be/U7eOs5lERww[/video]

There should be a chord chart of Blue Bossa attached. (Apparently I don't know how to attach a PDF or there's about 10 of them I can't see)

Edit: I just converted it to a jpg and that worked.

[jgreenwd]

Plenty of them in classical compositions though too. Especially post Romantic era, Beethoven and beyond.

Winner.

The typical -5 chord is a diminished triad. If you add the minor 7, it becomes a half-diminished chord. It is most common as:
viiº or viiø7 chord in major
iiº chord in natural minor
iiº or iiø7 chord in harmonic minor

It is also used as a secondary leading tone (transitional chord, used to modulate). For instance Cmaj Dm7-5 Ebmaj

The major chord with a -5 does not occur often in common practice. When it does, it can usually be identified as the I chord in lydian.
However, that's not technically correct, as the -5 is actually a #4 in that context. The distinction is largely academic.

[ajaxlepinski]

^^^ This man knows what he's talking about! ^^^

Love your clips jgreenwd!!!

[jgreenwd]

^^^ This man knows what he's talking about! ^^^

Love your clips jgreenwd!!!

Thank you, sir!

[Ostinato Rubato]

The utility of the diminished chord doesn't come from settling on that chord or vamping on it, it's from using it in passing. The b5 in a chord creates all this harmonic tension. The tones are boxed in, like forcing the repelling ends of several magnets to remain in close proximity. It wants to expand out and resolve into something more settled. So you feel the impact of the b5 the most, usually, when you resolve to the next chord in the progression. That's the exhale.

[EndTime]

While I understand how music theory suggests to use them, I have entire riffs based on just moving diminished chords. Or I use them completely out of context as far as key.. doesn't matter. If you're ears can't grasp the right places to use them, likely they ain't your cup of tea

[itchyfingers]

The utility of the diminished chord doesn't come from settling on that chord or vamping on it, it's from using it in passing. The b5 in a chord creates all this harmonic tension. The tones are boxed in, like forcing the repelling ends of several magnets to remain in close proximity. It wants to expand out and resolve into something more settled. So you feel the impact of the b5 the most, usually, when you resolve to the next chord in the progression. That's the exhale.

That's a good way to look at it. I always think of the b5 or tritone struggling to resolve itself, it just doesn't sound "right" on its own, but perfectly blends as a passing chord in the right progression.

[Ostinato Rubato]

While I understand how music theory suggests to use them, I have entire riffs based on just moving diminished chords. Or I use them completely out of context as far as key.. doesn't matter. If you're ears can't grasp the right places to use them, likely they ain't your cup of tea

Yes but you're also part alien.


I thought of you and Loop as I was typing my responses. You both use a lot of dissonant chords for heavy music and when done unapologetically the way you both do it works in contexts beyond traditional harmony.