Just to clarify others who may give this a shot.. Yes, an orbital sander will leave swirls, but a RANDOM orbital sander will be fine provided its used proper..
BUt no shame in hand sanding anyway to be sure you leave no machine marks..
Stains look good Jer.. Look pretty even and uniform.. Not sure I'd be doing too many colors over each other... You may get something interesting for sure, but Ithink you'll be getting diminishing results the more you do it..
But there are no rules. Whatever you find that works..
EndTime wrote:Just to clarify others who may give this a shot.. Yes, an orbital sander will leave swirls, but a RANDOM orbital sander will be fine provided its used proper..
BUt no shame in hand sanding anyway to be sure you leave no machine marks..
Stains look good Jer.. Look pretty even and uniform.. Not sure I'd be doing too many colors over each other... You may get something interesting for sure, but Ithink you'll be getting diminishing results the more you do it..
But there are no rules. Whatever you find that works..
Thanks man. I am going to do the underside of this panel in a bit. My sander is a random orbital but there was some huge swirls in the purple. I am probably just not using consistent enough pressure.
I'll post some more pics as I go. Also, there's a bit of splotchiness. Wondering if a pre stain is worth it. I don't necessarily mind the "aged a bit" look.
EndTime wrote:Just to clarify others who may give this a shot.. Yes, an orbital sander will leave swirls, but a RANDOM orbital sander will be fine provided its used proper..
BUt no shame in hand sanding anyway to be sure you leave no machine marks..
Stains look good Jer.. Look pretty even and uniform.. Not sure I'd be doing too many colors over each other... You may get something interesting for sure, but Ithink you'll be getting diminishing results the more you do it..
But there are no rules. Whatever you find that works..
Thanks man. I am going to do the underside of this panel in a bit. My sander is a random orbital but there was some huge swirls in the purple. I am probably just not using consistent enough pressure.
I'll post some more pics as I go. Also, there's a bit of splotchiness. Wondering if a pre stain is worth it. I don't necessarily mind the "aged a bit" look.
yeah, I can see the swirls.. That looks like regular orbital swirl marks.. But whatever.. Im not there, I cant say for sure whats goin on..
The splotchiness is gonna happen with pine. Its a soft wood. I would recommend against preconditioner, but you can try and see.. Preconditioner actually sorta prevents the stain from penetrating.. IN an attempt to keep some areas from absorbing the stain too quick/deep. Therefore, making it take more "even" But Its not ideal for when you are trying to go this dark, nor do I think it works very well. BUt with some work, you can make anything work out for you... I honestly think it looks better than I thought you'd get.. lol. Popping the grain with water is actually trying to get all the areas to take the stain DEEPER.. So they are kinda opposite ends of how to prep... Once its cleared, I dont think you'll feel to bad with the outcome if thats how it looks once you final stain...
mamberg wrote:Not specifically, but a random orbital sander would sand in all directions, no?
A random orbital sander is a different sanding pattern. . Yes it is moving in a circular pattern, but "the randomness" will prevent swirls. Since its not moving in a perfect circle.. Jer's sample looks like a regular orbital sander.. Those are the scratches I use the random orbit to remove! So , Im not sure what happened with Jer.. BUt like anything, there is a learning curve with all tools. Especially when used for finishing.
All I can say is we use a random orbital sander to remove scratches from other machines.. It often is the last sander i use before applying stain. For something like a headshell it never hurts to handsand anyway. Since it'll only take 5-10 minutes. BUt for my line of work, I m dealing with much more quantity and handsanding(while we used to do it EVERY job) is a thing of the past once the random orbital sanders came out.. They were designed to prevent swirls and I guess we just use them enough that I know I can trust it and its very rare I'll see a swirl from it..
Now, little "chatter marks" can happen if the paper got a kink in it or you picked up some debris.. My helper often makes these types of mistakes, but I dont! lol.. So, i know its fully avoidable if one is paying attention closely.
Yeah I am really thinking I'll just do what I did on the last board. I'll say, I watched the Keda dude make purple by doing red first then blue over it instead on mixing the powders together and it looked great.
I still want to do black first to try and keep the grain dark. I'll be doing more this weekend for sure.
You still think the spray poly is fine to finish? I figured 3 or 4 coats?
JerEvil wrote: You still think the spray poly is fine to finish? I figured 3 or 4 coats?
I think I mentioned poly when I thought you would be using oil base stains.. Sounds like you are using dyes mixed in water now, right? If so, you could use poly, or perhaps go with lacquer. Minwax actually makes a pretty decent lacquer in spray can... Has more odor, but its quicker drying and might be somewhat easier to get a more professional looking finish.
OR you can use water base poly Minwax also sells.. I think its polycrylic or sumthing.. Ive used it a handful of time and its also pretty decent. Wouldnt be my first choice, but it'll do. Especially if you want quicker drying and low odor.. BUt always practice first on scrap.. YOu never know if some of these finishes will cause the dye to bleed thru..
RIFF wrote:Ah I missed this. Cool stuff! I love woodworking & finishing, etc. Not that Im all that good at it, but I do enjoy it.
Im fooling with a shell for my Mark III.
Nice. You got it from RawCabs as well?
EndTime wrote:
JerEvil wrote: You still think the spray poly is fine to finish? I figured 3 or 4 coats?
I think I mentioned poly when I thought you would be using oil base stains.. Sounds like you are using dyes mixed in water now, right? If so, you could use poly, or perhaps go with lacquer. Minwax actually makes a pretty decent lacquer in spray can... Has more odor, but its quicker drying and might be somewhat easier to get a more professional looking finish.
OR you can use water base poly Minwax also sells.. I think its polycrylic or sumthing.. Ive used it a handful of time and its also pretty decent. Wouldnt be my first choice, but it'll do. Especially if you want quicker drying and low odor.. BUt always practice first on scrap.. YOu never know if some of these finishes will cause the dye to bleed thru..
Yeah man. I think you recommended the Polycrylic stuff. I'm all about easy and effective. I know I'm not making anything Mesa worthy like they post. Just want to make sure it's somewhat protected.
RIFF wrote:Ah I missed this. Cool stuff! I love woodworking & finishing, etc. Not that Im all that good at it, but I do enjoy it.
Im fooling with a shell for my Mark III.
Nice. You got it from RawCabs as well?
EndTime wrote:
JerEvil wrote: You still think the spray poly is fine to finish? I figured 3 or 4 coats?
I think I mentioned poly when I thought you would be using oil base stains.. Sounds like you are using dyes mixed in water now, right? If so, you could use poly, or perhaps go with lacquer. Minwax actually makes a pretty decent lacquer in spray can... Has more odor, but its quicker drying and might be somewhat easier to get a more professional looking finish.
OR you can use water base poly Minwax also sells.. I think its polycrylic or sumthing.. Ive used it a handful of time and its also pretty decent. Wouldnt be my first choice, but it'll do. Especially if you want quicker drying and low odor.. BUt always practice first on scrap.. YOu never know if some of these finishes will cause the dye to bleed thru..
Yeah man. I think you recommended the Polycrylic stuff. I'm all about easy and effective. I know I'm not making anything Mesa worthy like they post. Just want to make sure it's somewhat protected.
You are correct. Water based dye.
Go with the polycrylic then.. Like i said, I have no real use for most minwax stuff since the products I use are far superior and are designed for more demanding use... BUt its pretty decent..
the other difference when using a water based finish is it will be crystal clear, rather than have a yellow overcast like oil-base poly or lacquer.. so, over a dark stain like purple(or whatver color you are doing) the clear water will keep the color pretty much the same..
RIFF wrote:Ah I missed this. Cool stuff! I love woodworking & finishing, etc. Not that Im all that good at it, but I do enjoy it.
Im fooling with a shell for my Mark III.
Nice. You got it from RawCabs as well?
EndTime wrote:
JerEvil wrote: You still think the spray poly is fine to finish? I figured 3 or 4 coats?
I think I mentioned poly when I thought you would be using oil base stains.. Sounds like you are using dyes mixed in water now, right? If so, you could use poly, or perhaps go with lacquer. Minwax actually makes a pretty decent lacquer in spray can... Has more odor, but its quicker drying and might be somewhat easier to get a more professional looking finish.
OR you can use water base poly Minwax also sells.. I think its polycrylic or sumthing.. Ive used it a handful of time and its also pretty decent. Wouldnt be my first choice, but it'll do. Especially if you want quicker drying and low odor.. BUt always practice first on scrap.. YOu never know if some of these finishes will cause the dye to bleed thru..
Yeah man. I think you recommended the Polycrylic stuff. I'm all about easy and effective. I know I'm not making anything Mesa worthy like they post. Just want to make sure it's somewhat protected.
You are correct. Water based dye.
Go with the polycrylic then.. Like i said, I have no real use for most minwax stuff since the products I use are far superior and are designed for more demanding use... BUt its pretty decent..
the other difference when using a water based finish is it will be crystal clear, rather than have a yellow overcast like oil-base poly or lacquer.. so, over a dark stain like purple(or whatver color you are doing) the clear water will keep the color pretty much the same..
Cool. So should I brush it on or just get a few rattle cans? Also, do I sand between coats with super fine sand paper? Buff with really fine steel wool?
I need all secrets! Lol! Someone mentioned putting a touch of the dye in the last coat of clear...
RIFF wrote:Ah I missed this. Cool stuff! I love woodworking & finishing, etc. Not that Im all that good at it, but I do enjoy it.
Im fooling with a shell for my Mark III.
Nice. You got it from RawCabs as well?
[quote="EndTime"]Im not sure, I got it from Holy Diver when I got the Mark off him. He had started to stain the shell. I think its Maple, & the front & back plates are pine.
RIFF wrote:Ah I missed this. Cool stuff! I love woodworking & finishing, etc. Not that Im all that good at it, but I do enjoy it.
Im fooling with a shell for my Mark III.
Nice. You got it from RawCabs as well?
EndTime wrote:
JerEvil wrote: You still think the spray poly is fine to finish? I figured 3 or 4 coats?
I think I mentioned poly when I thought you would be using oil base stains.. Sounds like you are using dyes mixed in water now, right? If so, you could use poly, or perhaps go with lacquer. Minwax actually makes a pretty decent lacquer in spray can... Has more odor, but its quicker drying and might be somewhat easier to get a more professional looking finish.
OR you can use water base poly Minwax also sells.. I think its polycrylic or sumthing.. Ive used it a handful of time and its also pretty decent. Wouldnt be my first choice, but it'll do. Especially if you want quicker drying and low odor.. BUt always practice first on scrap.. YOu never know if some of these finishes will cause the dye to bleed thru..
Yeah man. I think you recommended the Polycrylic stuff. I'm all about easy and effective. I know I'm not making anything Mesa worthy like they post. Just want to make sure it's somewhat protected.
You are correct. Water based dye.
Go with the polycrylic then.. Like i said, I have no real use for most minwax stuff since the products I use are far superior and are designed for more demanding use... BUt its pretty decent..
the other difference when using a water based finish is it will be crystal clear, rather than have a yellow overcast like oil-base poly or lacquer.. so, over a dark stain like purple(or whatver color you are doing) the clear water will keep the color pretty much the same..
Cool. So should I brush it on or just get a few rattle cans? Also, do I sand between coats with super fine sand paper? Buff with really fine steel wool?
I need all secrets! Lol! Someone mentioned putting a touch of the dye in the last coat of clear...
I Don't have time to give all the secrets atm, but definitely buy the spray cans. I'm sure brushing it will pull the dye and Cause issues.
And there should be no need to tint the finish. You couldn't anyway if you use spray cans, but i would high recommend against even thinking about it. Lol.
Get some experience before you start thinking of tinting finishes. Especially store bought stuff like Minwax. You cant just throw some dye in there and its gonna work. I mean, it could.. but its totally not necessary for what you are doing
Trying again but this time using 6oz of water instead of 8oz.
Here is the plain black (I call it Antique Carcoal...)
Then I went to making the purple by doing red first:
Then blue across the whole thing to make purple on half and then a deeper blue over the black:
And with the handle (showing both colors)/
So I need to test some PolyCrylic on this as well as maybe some Valspar Shellac that I saw the Keda (maker of the dye) guy use. The colors should really pop more when that goes on.
Next board I'm going to try using isopropyl and water. Going to do the black with a VERY little bit of blue in it. I am leaning towards that for the final or deeper blue. Not feeling the purple as of yet.
Just another thought to make your choices tougher. You can take a torch to any pieces. Pine burns pretty easy. You can concentrate on the grain, or whatever. & if you did, you could still do stain after. Ive done it on shelves & stuff & like it.
