question of honor vs self preservation

[Dickarms]

say you're at work, and someone calls you out for something you did wrong. everyone does it wrong, but you got called on it. potentially very serious consequences.

do you:

a) take your pinch like a man. you aint no rat
b) fuck those guys, wikileaks time, bitches! you're all going down with me!

[sleewell]

hard to say without really knowing more but is it possible that anyone else who was also doing it wrong could ever have trained you or been in a position to guide you in doing it improperly?

if you can show numerous other people do it this way without naming names and you thought that this is how it was done then it would be hard to punish you exclusively and not everyone else.

again, hard to say without knowing more about the situation. but i wouldnt just go down for this solo if many others did the exact same thing.

[clipless bumper]

offer to wear a wire - it should end well............




really though - need more deets.
also - the odds of you being seriously reprimanded over it plays into the answer.

[clipless bumper]

stupid double post - thought that only happened from my phone.

[GAS KING]

What are the consequences?

[Telephant]

hard to say without really knowing more but is it possible that anyone else who was also doing it wrong could ever have trained you or been in a position to guide you in doing it improperly?

if you can show numerous other people do it this way without naming names and you thought that this is how it was done then it would be hard to punish you exclusively and not everyone else.

again, hard to say without knowing more about the situation. but i wouldnt just go down for this solo if many others did the exact same thing.

This. Although my knee jerk reaction would be to throw everyone under the bus and save yourself.

[Steveijobzz]

Lots of pitchings go on here where I work.

In fact, I'm so used to getting pitched under the bus, I'm surprised I don't have tire tracks on me.

[VTM]

b) fuck those guys, wikileaks time, bitches! you're all going down with me!

Going wikileaks is dangerous as you may be called out for not reporting something you have known about for some time but did not disclose until you were put in a corner. You are now in trouble for two things.

But like others have said, it's difficult to say without more details.

[Dickarms]

lol, well i guess that unanimous! some details:

by wrong, i mean like in the against the rules sense, not as in like improper or incorrect if that makes sense. as in, trained correctly, but doing it differently because everyone does.

so, my job is in maintenance of large semiconductor manufacturing equipment. we do routine maintenance checks every so many hours and change consumable parts that need to be changed at whatever time intervals. with several of the machines running different "recipes", often they use different materials depending on which chip/process they are running. thus this becomes a very detail oriented business, and if you're not paying attention, you can fuck up a LOT of money REAL quick.
and so over the years a checklist has developed that we have to complete during these checks.
now, the original issue, which was supposed to be blamed on us but wasnt our (the techs) fault, as someone put the wrong part in the wrong bin essentially. cool.
but during that investigation, something reared its ugly head.
when you check these parts, you are supposed to get someone to "buddy check" you. cool. except NO ONE has ever truly done it. they sign it blindly at best. at worst, someone signs for them because they are pieces of shit that are never around, or the signer is just a bit too lazy to ask the person who "checked" who may even be right next to them to sign it.


now, that sounds real bad. however it is everyday practice for everyone. everyone knows it but the higher ups. and its not as big of a deal as far as risk, because everything is labeled and we do this shit every day, the form is simply a formality. mistakes are VERY seldomly made.

but in this case, due to someone basically setting us up, one was made. ok. several people, and several forms were involved. in all of those other cases the people being signed for stared at their signatures, forged by someone else and said "yup, thats me!"

except for the dickhead that i signed for. "nope, thats not my signature"


yeah i fucked up, and yeah ill get a warning or whatver. but im debating on pulling the forms and showing the literally thousands of examples of this common practice, and some of the way worse legitimately bad shit some other techs do to necessitate it.

[Ostinato Rubato]

Honestly, you're the one who got caught so just let everyone else get caught in their own due time. Don't be Mr. Kamikaze who knows he's going down so he's gonna take out a boat while he plummets to his death. That's just rude.

[Dickarms]

that was my initial repsonse.


note that the people who would be thrown under the proverbial bus are perpetual bus throwers.
so does what they deserve override what i should do as a man?

[Marc G]

how bad are the repercussions??? if it's minor I would keep it to myself... if it's serious... EVERYONE'S GOING DOWN BITCH!

[Dickarms]

unsure, potentially very serious but i dont think id lose my job over it.


for the record, this i was ive decided to do even before this thread: i wrote a letter detailing a lot of this stuff, and why it happens, with no names and saved it in a safe place to be unleashed upon the fuckers should shit get serious enough. until then, which i doubt it will come to that, im taking the pinch.

[metalguy]

how bad are the repercussions??? if it's minor I would keep it to myself... if it's serious... EVERYONE'S GOING DOWN BITCH!

yeah this is honestly probably the best answer.

But from now on I would watch your own ass though and do it by the books and let everyone else get caught in their own time.

[Dickarms]

oh yeah, im playing the game for sure. and its not hard, just no one does it.

[BrendanO]

Masturbate in their Cheerios. Pee in their shampoo. Spit in their sodas. Shit in their Jason's Deli. Vengeance is the quiet art.

[metalguy]

Masturbate in their Cheerios. Pee in their shampoo. Spit in their sodas. Shit in their Jason's Deli. Vengeance is the quiet art.

Don't you think that's a bit over board? masturbate in their cheerios? seriously?









































































































masturbate in the coke at least but leave the cheerios out of it, they are the shit.

[BrendanO]

Honey Nut Cheerios, dickhead!

Actually, y'know what? Dickhead was a little strong. Like, I totally meant it in a jockular, chest bumping sort of fashion. You know, with a rising pitch in the last syllable, held out for about three seconds longer than would be mean, and put it over into frat-boy humor. But ultimately, I just do think that's going to come across really well.


Honey Nut Cheerios, cheesedick!


...no, not that either. I don't like where this path keeps going.

Let's start over.

Honey Nut Cheerios....



like... I dunno. I'm feeling maybe something a little on the rare side, like... mouthbreather? Nah, that'll never work. Shit. Knuckledragger? No, too much of a mouthful. Crap. Like, part of me want's to go for the b-word, but I'm trying not to get all gendered on this piece. "Asshole" is a little, I dunno, porn-y to really work. That's like, suggestive as shit.


Andrew Zimmerman? I dunno, is eating weird foods really an insult, per-se? Shit. This is a lot of work. I quit. Fuck you. You win.

[mrelusive]

unsure, potentially very serious but i dont think id lose my job over it.


for the record, this i was ive decided to do even before this thread: i wrote a letter detailing a lot of this stuff, and why it happens, with no names and saved it in a safe place to be unleashed upon the fuckers should shit get serious enough. until then, which i doubt it will come to that, im taking the pinch.

Good idea, just don't burn bridges or make life more difficult for yourself. I'd take the pinch, do the job 100% right from now on and maybe voice something along the lines of "Oh man, they'll probably be watching us a lot closer now. We (emphasis on WE) had better stop doing this shit." I had a job once where i was in a similar situation and i brought up the fact that everyone else was doing it that same way. Small staff. I eventually got squeezed out because i had become "that guy" that no one wants to work with now. I was better at the job than everyone there, but i had thrown a wrench in the gears and ruffled some feathers.

Another similar story is when a buddy of mine got a DUI. No erratic driving, pulled over for a busted light. Barely over the limit, arrested right in from of his wife / best friend, etc. TOUGH break. Another guy in our group of friends is a lawyer and is explaining it like "Man, EVERYONE drinks and drives. Anyone who drinks at all has done this. You just happened to get caught." Yes, and...? Shit happens, but he still made a mistake, still had to pay for it, etc.

This is why i try to follow rules pretty much to the letter all the time. I have massive anxiety issues about shit like this and the knowledge that i did things correctly / how i was asked goes a long way in reducing my compulsion to worry.

[Telephant]

I still say you should fuck them all.

[benjamin801]

Shit in their Jason's Deli.

Judging from the last few times I had Jason's Deli, they may not notice.

[GuitarBilly]

see this is kind of the same thing that happens when a cop gives you a speeding ticket. You could say that everyone on the freeway was speeding and you were just keeping up with traffic. Which is true, and he probably already knows that. But it's not a valid defense and it won't get you out of the ticket, so why bother.

I'd say man up and take the punishment quietly. Telling on others won't make you look any better to the higher-ups but it will make you look a lot worse to your peers and sooner your later it will come back to haunt you.

[Cirrus]

Take it like man, and quietly work out how you're going to destroy the guy who couldn't play along.

[mrelusive]

see this is kind of the same thing that happens when a cop gives you a speeding ticket. You could say that everyone on the freeway was speeding and you were just keeping up with traffic. Which is true, and he probably already knows that. But it's not a valid defense and it won't get you out of the ticket, so why bother.

I'd say man up and take the punishment quietly. Telling on others won't make you look any better to the higher-ups but it will make you look a lot worse to your peers and sooner your later it will come back to haunt you.

Boom. Exactly what I was getting at, but a lot more concise. I gotta practice using less words...

[DNW]

I would sorta do both. I'd go, "Yeah I fucked up, shouldn't have done it that way." But I'd also point out that no one does it the right way, so if they really want everything done properly, maybe someone needs to look at why it's not being done and what can be done to make sure it does happen in future. Whether that's because people are just fuckin' lazy, or there aren't enough people for too much work, or people just don't know what the fuck they're doing or whatever. So not so much finger-pointing at co-workers, but highlighting that this isn't just a one-off thing. Just punishing you for this one incident won't really do anything unless they deal with the whole problem.


But then, I wouldn't have been too happy about the situation in the first place. The procedures are there for a reason, people.