IR or Not to IR!!!!

[EndTime]

Thats the question!! or sumthin

I saw Karl Sanders from Nile released an IR pack, recorded by Erik Rutan of Hate Eternal, Cannibal, etc. And also he runs Mana studios which has become the new go to Death metal place in Florida.. So I bought one of the 5 cabs.. Its $10. Its that Torpedo Wall of Sound(I forget, if thats even the name. lol) But its basically a free plugin.. And pretty much as soon as I used it, I knew this was recorded more how my mic'd cabs sound..

So I used it to demo some pickups in one of my guitars today.. I figure Id just cut a couple tracks over a quick simple rhythm and compare and choose which pickup I liked.. And it was a success! I def found the one that worked nest for recordings and just playing..

But then of course, I said lets Mic this shit and see how close.. And they were definitely in the ballpark.. Then I did some tests and a little EQ to get em close and well, here is the 2 clips.. one is guitars cut with the Karl Sanders Splawn cab with Creamback 65. I used the sm7 and Sm57 mics.. The other is my cab with EVH Celestions, also using the sm57/sm7b mics.. Honestly they are ridiculously close.. But I guess Ill let people guess.. Or simply pick which one they like best!!

A little hint, I feel the IR have a little better defined pick attack.. The real mics have a bit more weight behind each picked note, and also has that "air", literally, I think its the air hitting the mics, in the very top end... Its not death metal or SLAYEERR .. Just something I made p to really be able to hear the shit I wanted to hear in regards to pickups.. So just even Steven plain Jane couple riffs 5153 el34 100watt red channel straight in

Clip 1 https://app.box.com/s/xm8l9csdvk4gdu9z1ijdlyb04ig1xm48

Clip 2 https://app.box.com/s/zh3iflmf2gw67pbmfmwmcxdu9rs7v60e

[GuitarBilly]

They're very close indeed. I think the second clip is the micd cab. Both sound great though. I wouldn't have an issue with either of those tones.

[ibenhad]

Hard to tell because the tracks are not the same unless I have the time off but through shitty headphones at work I liked track 2 better. I don't think in this day and age that mics are better than IR's especially if you can't mic up at home. But that being said I would always mic up if I have the means and room to do so. But adding extra reamped tracks with IR's to fill out guitar sounds is an excellent option.

[EndTime]

They're very close indeed. I think the second clip is the micd cab. Both sound great topic though. I wouldn't have an issue with either of those tones.

Yeah it’s the first time I heard straight away the same “style” of micing that I have for my own. I know there are other metal dudes with their IR packs like Kohle and Bogren. But idk, their mixes never felt close to mine. Maybe cause they are European! Hahah. But for real, this sound I got from the Karl Sanders was much more my style. Now I did do some eq’ing to get them close. But nothing crazy.

And my mic clip was clip 1, the IR was clip 2

Hard to tell because the tracks are not the same unless I have the time off but through shitty headphones at work I liked track 2 better. I don't think in this day and age that mics are better than IR's especially if you can't mic up at home. But that being said I would always mic up if I have the means and room to do so. But adding extra reamped tracks with IR's to fill out guitar sounds is an excellent option.

not sure what you mean about the tracks not being the same? They are the exact same riffs, master buss processing etc. i just swapped out the guitars.

I agree that Ir are fine, but I still hear things that stop me from being ALL in. But agree they are good for adding tracks to mic’d tone and or for leads or overdub guitars. But with anything I do, if I KNOW some can make these work and work well, I will continue to find ways for it to work for me. Just to learn how and to prove I can do if need be. While this is super close and I would actually argue it’s not worth splitting hairs over, I listen extremely critically , and there is still sumthin with the live mics that I don’t believe can ever be totally emulated. But this is definitely super close

[Lance-a-not]

First... LOVE your playing, cool tune!

Both sound really, really good. The second is the IR?
It sounds a bit more polished, and the "weight" you mentioned is more prevalent in the first.

[Lance-a-not]

Haha, read through the rest... I am off to the Two-Notes notes store!

[EndTime]

First... LOVE your playing, cool tune!

Both sound really, really good. The second is the IR?
It sounds a bit more polished, and the "weight" you mentioned is more prevalent in the first.

Hah thanks. But it’s not a song. Or anything I’d use. I really was auditioning pickups in a guitar. I have a bunch laying around. So I figured it’s a good reason to record sumthin with these IRs but also a good way to really listen back at the options. So I just made sumthin where I can clearly hear the pick attack on the low strings and bit of chords to hear the clarity. It was actually my favorite time choosing the right pickup. I really was able to listen back to All the little things I listen for. And with it sounding very similar to my real cab, it translated about perfect from what I heard in the clips to how it sounded thru a live cab.

[RaceU4her]

the second one seems to have a little more weight to me which is why i would have guessed it was the IR but i was wrong as i usually am with these tests lol

[EndTime]

the second one seems to have a little more weight to me which is why i would have guessed it was the IR but i was wrong as i usually am with these tests lol

I said weight behind the pick attack. Again, I’m sure I’m analyzing on levels most aren’t. But the 2nd one has a more defined front end of the attack. Overall it might be a touch bigger tone. But the mic’d clip has more weight behind the pick attack. Maybe it’s not a clear explanation but if you listen for just that aspect, I think you’ll hear it has that “weight” I refer to. Lance got it right! Haha

[Lance-a-not]

Thanks for the clips of this pack... They are having a sale too, so I ended up buying more, arrgghh

[EndTime]

Thanks for the clips of this pack... They are having a sale too, so I ended up buying more, arrgghh

Yeah I really like the one I got. And for $10 per cab or $40 for all 5, I mean, yeah. Basically a pack of strings. Altho I get free strings these days . But they are very cool and since I’m still more of a death metal dude and death metal dudes made these, these really felt right at home. Honestly of these 2, I might actually prefer the IR just cause I love how that pick attack comes across. And like the York stuff I like these have plenty of highs. In fact, these DID have fizz I had to lo-pass. But I much prefer that is there cause to me it’s definitely a part of guitar tone. I know people likely all dial it out and generally I do too, but sometimes I keep more of it in. And this allowed me to dial out the exact amount I wanted while keeping what I DID want of course. I’m certainly tempted to get the Greenback cab

[GuitarBilly]

I bought it too

[EndTime]

Lol. I played it again this morning and for just jamming, it’s definitely the one that feels most real. York stuff is more polished. These are definitely more raw. I’m pretty sure I got the Splawn cab with the 65 creambacks. It was the last one on the page of his. I know he had a couple with the Creamback 65. Based off these, they have a very Evh Celestion vibe. And I’ve heard good things about the Creamback 65, and this sounds great. They have a nice scoop too without losing body and making the top end brittle. It’s new, but that’s my favorite Ir so far. I wish I could use it with my Mesa cab clone IR. What sucks is that’s powered by Two notes tech. Pretty sure if you open it up you even see the processor, or whatver it is, labeled Two Notes. Be nice if they cross platformed with that!

If I had a do over, I’d just get that Torpedo or whatver. The shop I’m at Carried these and of course I got a bit of a deal and figured, it’s here and no waiting, I’ll just buy this. Obviously it sounds fine and works as one would hope. But this whole Two Notes thing is maybe a little better to use with other IRS. Anyway, just use it in the computer.

[RaceU4her]

are you using ir's on the bass too?? whats the bass chain?

[Lance-a-not]

Yeah, they even had an extra sale that popped up on packs... I bought the Steve Stevens and George Lynch ones too. All three packs for $70, duh

I don't play that aggressive, but I opened it up in Logic and that Splawn cab sounds so good.
Thanks again!!

[EndTime]

are you using ir's on the bass too?? whats the bass chain?

Its my first time Using the Bogren single knob bass plugin.. Definitely works as advertised.. I actually have a few bass things I like.. The mammoth plugin, now this Bogren one knob bass, and my Sansamp Streve Harris. They all work well for me..

[EndTime]

So maybe because the NAD of the 5153 and the questions regarding how different it is to the PV.. I used my 6505 boosted with the MXR Modiefied bad ass OD.. I definitely dial that in these days to have sorta a more cocked way thing, but idk its fun to play thruy like this! Not sure I love the recorded tone.. But I do not hate it.. Its interesting.. And maybe even has a glimpse of some of that old Carcass tone.. Maybe closer to Swansong.. lol Which wouldn't be what I want, but its a bit heavier than that still I think...

6505, MXR modified OD. https://app.box.com/s/gllqkt19df409d8m5prd834c3pv4k4t6

[GuitarBilly]

So maybe because the NAD of the 5153 and the questions regarding how different it is to the PV.. I used my 6505 boosted with the MXR Modiefied bad ass OD.. I definitely dial that in these days to have sorta a more cocked way thing, but idk its fun to play thruy like this! Not sure I love the recorded tone.. But I do not hate it.. Its interesting.. And maybe even has a glimpse of some of that old Carcass tone.. Maybe closer to Swansong.. lol Which wouldn't be what I want, but its a bit heavier than that still I think...

6505, MXR modified OD. https://app.box.com/s/gllqkt19df409d8m5prd834c3pv4k4t6

holy shit I love this. I don't want to say it's better than the EVH because tone is subjective yada, yada..
no fuck it...I like it way better than the EVH

[EndTime]

Haha well we like what we like. On my car drive I checked em all. They are dialed different enough I could find good, and use, in either for sure. The 6505 I spent a little time totally dialing it in different than I EVER have before. And that’s saying sumthin with an amp I’ve used for almost 3 decades. But that modified OD is super tweakable with the low and hi mid(tone) control. And then the bump switch. So I basically dialed the bass WAY down to really tighten the distortion. And then hit the bump switch to add some balls backZ but when you dial the bass all the way down, well almost, on the pedal, it can get really grating. So I said, well let’s dial back the tone control. So I brought it DOWN to about 9 o’clock. And then I jacked the output to 10 and just a hair above zero in the gain and it has this tone. I was even able to get the amp gain a little higher since I’m not pushing a ton of signal into the front. I was jamming on this for an hour just enjoying what this sounded like. Honestly I never had it sound like this before.

[NinjaRaf]

The mic clip sounds like it has more life to it. I hear what you mean about the pick attack, but I do also think the mic clip has more weight overall, even if the attack isn't so pronounced.

[RaceU4her]

Every time I think my mixes are getting kind of cool I listen to a Endtime clip and I’m like fuck my shit sucks

[EndTime]

Whenever I hear anyone gettin close, I turn up the heat!! Hahaha j/k. I appreciate that tho…

I think sometimes when I don’t actually care about a clip and just do it and do some quick mix things that make sense at the moment, I get better results sometimes..: When I spend more time it’s very reasonable to think I may do a couple tweaks too much

[EndTime]

Well if Bill Sees this lets see if the PV still is the best.. I haven't even A/B'd them.. I just cut this real quick and need to leave.. But the EVH blue channel boosted with similar settings as I did to the PV with the MXR Bad ass overdrive.. I think I could dial it a bit better, but ..

5153 el34 100 watt blue with boost! https://app.box.com/s/lf9ue38wd5vu0zeg62eiq9wgcgrv6voo

[NinjaRaf]

I can see why you like the blue channel so much. It definitely has something unique going on. I still prefer the red channel clip. But I don't think one is better than the other at this point. Just different.

[GuitarBilly]

The 2 are very close now. The boost seems to have filled up the mids nicely.
I do like the EVH better now. Ir has more of that Marshall grind and clarity.

I have to give this pedal a try. I love what it did to both amps.