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DIY build - garage studio ALMOST DONE! 
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GABmiral
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Location: Riverside, CA
It's happening. Building the GRIMESPACE Sound Lab...

Last month, I posted a question asking what was needed to do a rehearsal / recording space in the garage. Got some great feedback from a bunch of you about it, and read some stuff on Gearslutz, John Sayers' forum, and other sites. The amount of information out there is insane, and much of it is overwhelmingly against even trying to do a rehearsal space at home without putting in major engineering and $$$.

After talking with my dad, who never let an engineering problem get in his way, we decided to give it a go. He recently retired and wants to help out with relocating my music stuff from the house so that my oldest son can take the room, as well as give us a place to jam. I say us - right now it's me and friends, but hopefully it'll be my two sons who at least seem interested in learning to play. We're hoping they'll get a band going of their own, and then they can rent from me :D .

After researching a bit and posting the question here on GAB, I came up with a few base requirements and guidelines to design from
  • We're keeping this as reasonable as possible - designing for sound mitigation using the room-in-a-room concept, but not expecting to make something that could double as a 24/7 operation. Jamming with a drummer and bass player with someone doing vocals will probably be the majority of higher-volume work. Might have the occasional 4- or 5-piece trying to relive our college metal days on a Saturday afternoon, but that's about the extent of it.
  • Will be setting up a computer recording workstation. Will be learning to do some recording, but have no aspirations to be Abbey Road.
  • The room is going to be finished - the room will be part of the house, and isn't going to be all function without form. I don't have the worlds greatest equipment, but my stuff is good, and I plan to build some guitars going forward. That and memorabilia / signed stuff will be displayed, so it's about as much a man-cave (along with my shop out back) as I'm gonna ever need.
  • Cooling and heating will be addressed by either self-contained unit or some form of tie-in to the house system. Noise abatement in the supply / return system will need to be addressed.
  • Complete electrical subsystem will be installed with a master shutoff for the entire room.
  • Remote fire sensor to be installed.
    [...]
  • The size will be constrained to a little more than half the usable garage area, to allow for storage shelving on the floor, and the ceiling will support other bulky items.

The garage already had a smaller roll-up door (12' instead of 16'), and a partition wall running front to back, which forms a wide corridor for the laundry and pantry-type storage. My wife was not going to give up any of her space, so that, combined with our storage needs, dictates the size of the space. We decided to create a 6" air space between the outer walls, which had already been insulated and drywalled, and the new studio walls. We also had a corner brace up in the joist area that was going to keep the height below the 7-1/2' mark. We couldn't remove it, as it was structural, but a call to my uncle (I have a lot of contractors in my family) confirmed that we could cut it out and replace it with a 16 gauge piece of structural strap material. Doing so gained another 1-1/2 inches, which was worth it.

In the end, we've come up with a space that's a little over 13' by 11'. Not perfect, and still more square than acoustics say we should have, but it'll have to work. Here's a couple of illustrations.

This space planning drawing is just to see how much crap I can load in. Not sure if the riser is something I'll want to commit to, but I'm guessing it may help with the thuds, since we're not doing a raised / decoupled floor. The riser would be made from 1x2 or 1x4 with schloads of rockwool stuffing, plywood or mdf, and carpet. The cylinder in the corner was representing a portable A/C unit, if it was going to have to be installed in the regular space. The garage is pretty much drawn to scale, with the laundry corridor (we call it the 'mud room') on the lower area, and the storage unit with the rolltop door on the left.

Image

We decided to go with staggered studs as the primary means of decoupling the walls and reducing sound transmission. We are using a mix of 5/8" and 1/2" drywall (will probably be doubled on the inside), and will be insulating with two layers - standard R13 on the outer stud frames and Rockwool on the inner side. We won't be doing any major decoupling with the ceiling or floors - they'll just have to be ok. However, we'll be loading the ceiling joist bays with plenty of rockwool and capping the top with OSB / fiberboard to allow for storage.

We went from design to full build about 3 weeks ago. In the next day, I'll post up some progress pics. We have 3 walls now standing, with electrical roughed-in, along with some of the thermal insulation, which we'll be combining with rockwool. This fairly accurate illustration shows the framing we've done to date, with the 4th wall outlined, which we'll be putting in (hopefully) this weekend. A/C will be a portable unit in the bumped-out area. We're going to install a doorframe that'll support two doors (hinges will be on opposite sides of the doorframe to allow for equipment flow in & out of the room).

Image

So, what'cha think? I'd love to hear any thoughts / suggestions to make this a success. It's at the point where it's happening regardless, but I'm really anxious to give it a real run-through to see if I can rock out for real, hopefully by the beginning of August. :rawk:

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  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Last edited by G-SPACE on Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.



Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:00 pm
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Looks good man! I can't wait to see pics of the finished product!

Needs fake palmtrees in the corners, though. :D

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:29 am
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Looks like ya got a plan, good luck with everything and keep us posted with some photos.

But this cracked me up:

"•Everything built to code as much as possible". :facepalm:

Good luck, work safe and have fun.

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:41 am
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GABmiral
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Jay wrote:
Looks good man! I can't wait to see pics of the finished product!

Needs fake palmtrees in the corners, though. :D


Thanks dude. Glad to see someone saw this thread. Was starting to give up hope :)

...and no palmtrees will be killed in the making of this studio, fake or not ;)

Casey4s wrote:
Looks like ya got a plan, good luck with everything and keep us posted with some photos.

...

Good luck, work safe and have fun.


Pics will be going up soon. Just finished connecting all the walls and got the ceiling joists up in place this weekend! Thanks for your interest :thu:

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Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Last edited by G-SPACE on Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:44 am
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They say pics are worth a thousand words, so here we go...

This is the space were the studio will go. Exterior walls are already filled with thermal insulation and drywalled. Obviously a bit more cleanup needed to be done:

Image

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The studio wall will stop just before the tracks for the garage door, and will form a storage area.

Image

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This pic and the one above show the laundry area where the section of wall will be removed, and a new sealed entry for the studio will be built

Image

The T-Bar on this ceiling is right at the 7' mark, which is a bit lower than we're hoping for in the new room - there are rafters in the existing garage space that are set right at at 8', and we're going to be building beneath that. The existing rafters are visible here, which limit how far we'll be building the new studio.

Image

As of the start of this project, the roofing is scheduled to be replaced in 2 weeks with a layer of OSB and then standard asphalt shingles. We're installing new ventilation at the rooftop, using a solar powered fan, which should be quiet and help cool the main garage space somewhat. Not sure if we'll address the uninsulated rafter area of the garage - either for thermal or sound protection. This will be considered after we get the studio up and running with A/C.

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:10 am
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Sledge hammers and sawzalls at work here :evil:

Image

Image

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Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:15 am
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Framing the first wall - note the double / staggered studs for decoupling

Image

Can't help sneaking in one of the kids occasionally

Image

Thermal insulation on the outside...

Image

...squared, braced, and drywalled. We're sheeting the outside before lifting it into place so we don't have to move it out from the wall, do the drywall work, then move it back. Could have been done using either method - we chose the former :)

Image

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Ready for lifting into place

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Using one of man's first 'machines' to push the heavy SOB into place

Image

Ta da

Image

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Last edited by G-SPACE on Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:44 am
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WoW! great progress, man that is looking terrific :thu:

At least the kid had a more productive tool than a crowbar in his hand, I can see who is doing the real work here. :lol:

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DIY Links:

MOD 102 Amp Kit & video:
http://www.guitarkitbuilder.com/content ... lifier-kit

DIY Box Joint Jig & Videos:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Casey4 ... t=6&page=1

Chassis:
http://www.guitarkitbuilder.com/content ... er-chassis

Turret boards:
http://www.guitarkitbuilder.com/content ... nstruction

Tolex:
http://guitarkitbuilder.com/how-apply-t ... r-cabinet/


Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:40 pm
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that's pretty awesome!! Keep the updates coming!


Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:42 pm
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:snax:

pretty cool

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Loop wrote:
Also, I hate to bring this to light considering there are some feelings in this thread, but you misspelled "disappointed".


Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:43 pm
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Casey4s wrote:
WoW! great progress, man that is looking terrific :thu:

At least the kid had a more productive tool than a crowbar in his hand, I can see who is doing the real work here. :lol:

You got that one right :hi5:
Marc G wrote:
that's pretty awesome!! Keep the updates coming!

That update is miles behind... gots lotta mo' headed yer way :D
Mike LX-R wrote:
:snax:

pretty cool

Glad to see ya'll here - was worried nobody was interested. This thread seemed to be sinking faster than the Titanic :party:

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Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:03 pm
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Very cool!!

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:34 pm
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Hopefully, you'll forgive a little diversion here. If not, please proceed to the next post, which should be up shortly.

We have a little tradition in my family. Whenever I'm doing work on the house on something that'll be covered up (ie: floors, etc.), I let the kids draw / paint things. It's kind of a time capsule that will be really awesome to see someday in the future when the work is being redone - either by me or possibly my kids. If nothing else, it's cool knowing that these walls are covered in their artwork, and can't be (unless some disaster happens) erased or lost.

So, since the exterior walls won't be seen anymore - at least for the forseeable future - I let them have at it while my dad and I sat and pondered the next bit of construction.

Image

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Probably should have let them go at it with paint, but oh well, it's not like they haven't done it before...

Image

...and, since I'm sharing, this is the room I made before we had it recarpeted :D

Image

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:58 pm
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Back to business...

Wall #2. Framing:

Image

Thermal insulation, getting ready for bracing:

Image

Sheeted & fire-taped:

Image

Here's a few action shots. Keep in mind, this is a near- 14' wall, build up with 2x6's and double studs, with 5/8" drywall and some steel bracing & a couple rolls of insulation thrown in for fun (not to mention nails & staples :)). It was friggin' heavy enuff for me, that's fer sure...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:08 pm
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Are you putting it straight onto the concrete floor? We built our frame on top of 2" polystyrene sheets.

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:17 pm
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skybluegary wrote:
Are you putting it straight onto the concrete floor? We built our frame on top of 2" polystyrene sheets.

Yeah - anchoring straight down to concrete. During my research, I read some things about doing as you state, but we decided to forego that option. When we were designing the room, we did some pros / cons about certain sound mitigation options, and this one simply landed in the 'no' category, along with floating the entire floor, hat channels, whisper clips, green glue, and the myriad other things that can be done at steadily increasing cost, with uncertain bang-for-buck benefit.

I'm sure this option has merits, but we decided to focus our mitigation efforts on the decoupling of the walls and probably increasing the sheetrock density (may be double-sheeting the inside), as well as installing rockwool throughout the entire structure. I'm going to be very diligent in sealing the crap out of the bottom plates and the rest of the framing, drywall gaps, and any other possible source of leakage. If we do our job right, the only potential source of air leakage will be in the A/C ducting, which will be running through a 'muffler' box (still to-be-determined).

I'd love to hear your thoughts as to how much help the poly foundation was to the overall build. What other mitigation options did you put in, and were they more, as, or less important than the subfloor?

Thanks!

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Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:48 pm
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On to wall 3!

This one is different, in that it includes the doorway to the studio. Very important, as it obviously is a huge potential source of air leakage.

In order to maximize strength and minimize the possible gaps, I decided to construct the doorway like a 'hatch'. The 2x6 bottom plate that runs the length of the wall will remain uncut in the doorway, and will form a solid threshold. We will install an exterior solid-core door on the inside first and make special efforts to seal it as perfectly as possible. We will allow for a second door to be installed on the outside (from the laundry side), if the first is allowing too much sound transmission.

Unfortunately, we were running short on time and I kept forgetting to get pics during the construction. It's very similar to the other walls, and we left the drywall off this time, as we will have access to both sides of this wall. Here's what I have:

Perimeter framing (and my kid's own framing project :))

Image

The only shot I have of the completed frame before standing it up. This was between weekends.

Image

And, the completed item, with insulation and bracing installed.

Image

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:01 pm
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Looks good man! That's impressive work! I bet those walls were plenty heavy hefting up with just 2 people. :lol:

Oh, what size is that novara frame? Just wondering.... :whistle:

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:07 pm
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Holy shit, that's a lot of work but looking amazing so far!
Can't wait for the final touches.

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:20 pm
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ovid9 wrote:
Looks good man! That's impressive work! I bet those walls were plenty heavy hefting up with just 2 people. :lol:

Oh, what size is that novara frame? Just wondering.... :whistle:

Ha! I thought one of you might pick up on that. Too bad my Serotta was out of view :)

Not sure what size - it's my wife's bike. Hasn't seen miles since she found out she was pregnant back in '02. Gotta get back to that...

And yes, those walls were really stout!

JCDenton6 wrote:
Holy shit, that's a lot of work but looking amazing so far!
Can't wait for the final touches.

Thanks! I can't wait, either!

Will be posting more shortly.

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Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:20 pm
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After two busy weekends, here's where we're at

Image

...and we started laying out the final wall at the start of this past (3rd) weekend.

Image

This wall will include the niche for the portable A/C unit we decided to go with. We're building the opening big enough to allow the unit to tuck almost completely inside and allow it to be swiveled to direct the air flow in any direction. We hadn't gotten it yet, so we weren't certain of the actual depth, so we're just worrying about the wall at this point.

Image

Similar story - thermal insulation on the outside, followed by squaring the wall and securing everything with diagonal bracing

Image

...and up it went

Image

Image

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:38 pm
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maybe I missed it - but is the ceiling going to be the same construction as the walls?


Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:47 pm
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mamberg wrote:
maybe I missed it - but is the ceiling going to be the same construction as the walls?

Unfortunately, ceiling clearance isn't allowing for that - I'm already going to be at 7-1/2 feet max height - maybe less, depending on how we do the drywall. We're going to rely on rockwool & thermal insulation + paying a lot of attention to sealing all joints as best we can. I realize I'm relying on a lot of hope for that - perhaps I can cover the whole top in Audimute sheets or something if I'm really getting a lot of sound leakage through the ceiling?

...we'll see

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Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:57 pm
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You do some great looking work, are you in the construction trade?

It looks like you are going to be installing your gear any day now :thu:

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:58 pm
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GRIMESPACE wrote:
mamberg wrote:
maybe I missed it - but is the ceiling going to be the same construction as the walls?

Unfortunately, ceiling clearance isn't allowing for that - I'm already going to be at 7-1/2 feet max height - maybe less, depending on how we do the drywall. We're going to rely on rockwool & thermal insulation + paying a lot of attention to sealing all joints as best we can. I realize I'm relying on a lot of hope for that - perhaps I can cover the whole top in Audimute sheets or something if I'm really getting a lot of sound leakage through the ceiling?

...we'll see


so you are going to put a ceiling on it though? right?
maybe you could insulate and sheetrock the bottom of the floor above first?


Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:08 pm
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Casey4s wrote:
You do some great looking work, are you in the construction trade?

It looks like you are going to be installing your gear any day now :thu:

Thanks man - we're pretty well connected with contractors & builders in the family, and both my dad and I have done enough construction, electrical, plumbing, etc. to be fairly familiar with how things are designed and built. Plus, we've run everything by the family to be confident in what we're doing - at least building-wise.

...it's the sound mitigation that's keeping me up at night. I'm absolutely DYING to get the room buttoned up so we can run a test. :rawk:

Maybe we can have the first IE Ampfest at my place, eh? :cool:

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:15 pm
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GRIMESPACE wrote:
I'd love to hear your thoughts as to how much help the poly foundation was to the overall build. What other mitigation options did you put in, and were they more, as, or less important than the subfloor?

Thanks!


I really couldn't quantify the amount of help the floor gave, but it is one of the complete walls of the box in a box, and one of the contact areas regarding travelling vibrations (we put wooden flooring and carpet on top of the poly). You saw the pics from my build? I can say though, that my connected neighbour couldn't hear us (he did say they could tell when we were really going for it due to slight low freq virbration) whereas my neighbour across the road could hear a bit more than that if their windows were open, essentially the floor seemed better at killing sound than the walls.

Every DIY job is going to have compromises, it looks like you're really coming on well with it though, we'll done so far! :thu:

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:16 pm
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mamberg wrote:
GRIMESPACE wrote:
mamberg wrote:
maybe I missed it - but is the ceiling going to be the same construction as the walls?

Unfortunately, ceiling clearance isn't allowing for that - I'm already going to be at 7-1/2 feet max height - maybe less, depending on how we do the drywall. We're going to rely on rockwool & thermal insulation + paying a lot of attention to sealing all joints as best we can. I realize I'm relying on a lot of hope for that - perhaps I can cover the whole top in Audimute sheets or something if I'm really getting a lot of sound leakage through the ceiling?

...we'll see


so you are going to put a ceiling on it though? right?
maybe you could insulate and sheetrock the bottom of the floor above first?


Oh yeah - I think I misunderstood the premise of your question. The room will definitely will have a ceiling. Just haven't gotten to that part of my story yet :) Hang tight - it should become obvious how I plan to do this very soon :thu:

skybluegary wrote:
GRIMESPACE wrote:
I'd love to hear your thoughts as to how much help the poly foundation was to the overall build. What other mitigation options did you put in, and were they more, as, or less important than the subfloor?

Thanks!


I really couldn't quantify the amount of help the floor gave, but it is one of the complete walls of the box in a box, and one of the contact areas regarding travelling vibrations (we put wooden flooring and carpet on top of the poly). You saw the pics from my build? I can say though, that my connected neighbour couldn't hear us (he did say they could tell when we were really going for it due to slight low freq virbration) whereas my neighbour across the road could hear a bit more than that if their windows were open, essentially the floor seemed better at killing sound than the walls.

Every DIY job is going to have compromises, it looks like you're really coming on well with it though, we'll done so far! :thu:

Makes total sense. I wasn't sure if you were the one that posted those pictures in my other thread - thanks for that! I really think that would make a big difference, but lack of available ceiling height plus cost reasonableness versus perceived benefit (as far as what we hope :)) caused us to skip that part of the box. Hopefully the density of my 60 year old concrete will be enough to handle the situation. That, and my closest neighbor's house is actually elevated about 4 or 5 feet above my house, which may also help minimize the transmission of lower frequencies to their property :idk: .

I really appreciate the input! Please feel free to chime in / point out anything I miss!

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:25 pm
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This is a bit out of order, but I went ahead and made an updated drawing with studs for the final wall where the A/C niche will go, as well as the ceiling rafter system. This should clear up whatever miscommunication I may have made about the ceiling design.

Image

The great thing about this is that the framing system is documented fairly accurately, although there is no way to be 100% accurate, since this is wood and it's about as green (wet) as it gets... At least I'll have a good idea of where studs are in the walls if/when I'm trying to locate a new guitar hangar for that $10,500 Gil Yaron '59 Les Paul I want :evil:

After we get the framing established and documented for the A/C box, I'll soon be adding 1x2 nailers to the framing to give me some wood to run screws in, should we install a second interior layer of drywall. I'll also be documenting electrical wiring, ceiling blocking, CAT5 wiring, and anything else related to the infrastructure.

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:24 pm
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@skybluegary - do you think I might get some isolation / decoupling benefit by building platforms for amps and drums to sit on that have a simple base frame stuffed with rockwool and covered in carpet, ie: drum riser?

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  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:30 pm
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These shots show the ceiling joists as they were being wrapped up. Pretty close to the last bit of work this past Saturday.

Sunday was all about kids' VBS at church in the morning, then our band did a really great evening service / performance last night. Way cool way to end a pretty exhausting and productive weekend :rawk:

Image

Image

At the end of the day (Saturday), I decided to roll in my amp to see if there was ANY difference in sound outside the garage. Wasn't expecting much, as the only two walls that had any drywall (and just on the outside) were exterior facing walls that already had drywall on them. My wife said it was still pretty noisy out in front of our thin steel garage door - gonna have to look at insulating that, I bet. Oh well, the real test comes when we get the ceiling done and the bulk of the drywall up.

Image

Also, I was really taken aback at how bassy my amp sounded in that room, which had thermal insulation facing me in all directions (except up). The room had a fairly dead ambient quality, which is sucking the life out of the sound in there. It's really got me thinking about the finish of the room. Was planning to do exterior (cheap) carpet on the walls to deaden things, but now I'm pretty sure I'm going to paint and treat the room a bit like the recording guys do. DIY bass traps, here I come...

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  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

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Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:52 pm
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Some preliminary stuff with the electrical system...

We're going to run two separate circuits to the room. The A/C unit will be on one, outlets on the other. This is to help keep hum and noise on the amps to a minimum. Not sure yet which circuit we'll put lights on - we're going to run LED lights that are made to retrofit into recessed cans or can be installed into a metal junction box. We're going to surface-mount junction boxes on the inside ceiling so that we don't have to penetrate the ceiling drywall with anything but the wire. Should help somewhat with the sound mitigation. Anyhow, they'll draw extremely low current and should run cool and quiet on a dimmer switch.

I'll post some better pics of what we're doing when we start digging a bit into main subpanel in my garage. For now, here's the junction box on the inside of the garage exterior wall that we're running wire from. Nothing too exciting, but this is where we'll tie all studio power to. The grey PVC conduit carries 4 wires (two circuits, ground, and neutral) over to the studio wall.

Image

I've also decided that I want to make sure the room has master kill switches next to the entry door, so that I don't have to worry about things running and potentially burning up in a completely soundproofed room that's outside our main living space. I'll install a couple of small indicator lights on the side of this switch panel that will indicate when power is on. The rule will be - if we're not in the studio, the lights should be off.

Image

I may also install a 'Do Not Enter' light that I can switch on from the inside of the room, so people don't walk in on a recording session that's not loud enough to be heard outside the room. Also will be installing ethernet cabling, so I can get good bandwidth from the router in the house to the computer I'll be installing in there.

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  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

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Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:57 pm
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So that brings me completely up to present with this build.

I've starting putting together a list of things that are on tap for the next major work session, hopefully this weekend (I've been dealing with some serious back issues, and it's starting to kinda act up)
* installing drywall nailers throughout the interior structure, so we don't have problems anchoring down a second set of drywall sheeting
* caulking / sealing joints in the framing and along the bottom plates (my concrete floor is like an ocean of dips and waves) throughout the structure to block air (and thus acoustic) leakage
* installing remaining electrical outlet boxes in walls, drilling and roughing in electrical wire for outlets and lighting
* finish conduit wireway and wiring from master kill switches to garage subpanel
* design and frame the A/C box
* start planning out the muffler box for air distribution (in and out of room)

We'll see how things go...

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  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

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Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:12 pm
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GRIMESPACE wrote:
@skybluegary - do you think I might get some isolation / decoupling benefit by building platforms for amps and drums to sit on that have a simple base frame stuffed with rockwool and covered in carpet, ie: drum riser?


I think there is always benefit if you can separate any piece of equipment from the floor, even with something temporary like polystyrene or rubber under cab wheels or underneath the wood frame of the riser, the less contact with the floor the better.

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Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:02 pm
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Makes sense - can't wait to try it out!

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  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

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Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:06 pm
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Build update - weekend of 7/26 & 27

With the walls and ceiling framing in place, this weekend was primarily spent getting ready for the drywall phase. Lots of detail work here, including framing in the A/C niche, roughing-in electrical wiring, and sealing up air gaps in the framing.

Framing of the sides and top is all staggered for noise mitigation. Didn't get any pics of the A/C niche in-progress, but here's a couple shots of the completed work

Image

Image

And this is the unit we're hoping will do the job. It's intended to be set up with an exhaust hose that goes into a window opening. Since we obviously don't have a window, we'll be building a muffler box (noise apparently travels really well right though A/C units and through ductwork) with an inline fan on the outlet that'll take the hot air and send it up to our new roof-mounted solar fan. Details are still rough at this point, but we're working on it...

Image

Most of the electrical wiring is in place now. We're planning to surface-mount 6 LED lights on the ceiling. We also put 3 electrical receptacles on each wall that are all going to be connected to the master switch on the outside of the room. With the exception of two plugs (for computers), the room will all be shut off whenever we're not in there. One drawback of all these electrical boxes is that I'll have a hell of a lot of insulating to do to make sure they don't leak noise.

Image

Image

Image

I also ran CAT5 cable in the walls for the computer, so I have better bandwidth (than wireless) to the server in my house.

Didn't get a shot of the sealant I'm using, but it's actual Acoustic Sealant that comes in massive 30 oz tubes and was surprisingly dirt-cheap, considering I got it from a specialty place that luckly was near my work. Wound up running 2 tubes of the stuff around the ceiling area and part of the flooring.

Last major operation of the weekend was to get some more of the exterior drywall up. Still have to sheet around the doorway and A/C niche, but it's getting close to being sealed up enough (once the ceiling is sheeted) to do a test run :rawk:

Image

Image

Image

Unfortunately, work stopped suddenly when my Dad sliced his thumb cutting the last piece of drywall we were going to do. The good part is that it wasn't deep enough to require stitches. The bad part is that he has no lymph nodes in that part of his body, due to the cancer surgery he had a few years back, and he's unable to fight even simple infections that most of us deal with on a regular basis without skipping a beat. His situation is far more serious, and has landed him in the hospital more than a few times with plummeting blood pressure and other very serious issues. He's got a full 'kit' from the doctor of antibiotics, surgical scrub, ointment, etc., and the fortunate thing (we hope) is that he actually had been taking his antibiotic medication from another injury he had from a week ago. He's seeing the doctor today, and I'm hoping that he's able to escape this one. Anyway, sorry for the tangent... prayers and mojo requested...

Seeya in a few days.

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  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

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Last edited by G-SPACE on Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:54 pm
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That stinks man, hope everything is ok with your dad's thumb.
Great progress so far though! :thu:

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Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:28 pm
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Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the support!

Can't wait to close the room off enough to see if what we're doing is going to allow us to rock out without offending everyone around us :nail:

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  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

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Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:47 pm
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coming along nicely man... hope your Dad is ok!


Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:14 am
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Thanks! So far, so good on both accounts. Hopefully, things will keep moving that way.

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  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

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Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:49 pm
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Looks like you are making great progress :thu:

I sure hope your Dad is going to be OK. My Mom had some lymph nodes removed a few years ago too and I am well aware how scarey an injury like that can be. My best wishes to him.

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Chassis:
http://www.guitarkitbuilder.com/content ... er-chassis

Turret boards:
http://www.guitarkitbuilder.com/content ... nstruction

Tolex:
http://guitarkitbuilder.com/how-apply-t ... r-cabinet/


Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:24 pm
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You sure have a lot of outlets on one circuit there... Just a precaution that you may want to run another breaker to it.

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Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:51 pm
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Man this looks awesome great job. Wish I owned I so need to build a studio. Great thread and appreciate the updates through the process.

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Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:26 pm
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Looks like a great job!

I'm wondering about buzz in the amps and both circuits sharing the neutral or am I seeing this wrong...

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Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:06 pm
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Casey4s wrote:
Looks like you are making great progress :thu:

I sure hope your Dad is going to be OK. My Mom had some lymph nodes removed a few years ago too and I am well aware how scarey an injury like that can be. My best wishes to him.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the well-wishes. Fortunately, my dad rolled through that incident just fine. Looks like the meds must have done their job (maybe the prayers & mojo helped, too :thu: ).

Diocide wrote:
You sure have a lot of outlets on one circuit there... Just a precaution that you may want to run another breaker to it.

Actually, we're breaking the circuit up a bit. Computer(s) will be on a dedicated set of outlets on the sides so they won't shut down using the kill switch - just the amps, instruments, and anything else plugged into the other outlets. Everything's 20 amp, so I really don't think we'll have trouble unless we start running fog machines or something silly like that. A/C is on a totally separate circuit (more on that below).

ibenhad wrote:
Man this looks awesome great job. Wish I owned I so need to build a studio. Great thread and appreciate the updates through the process.

Thanks - I'm really having fun with it. Glad you're enjoying the thread.

jamminjohn wrote:
Looks like a great job!

I'm wondering about buzz in the amps and both circuits sharing the neutral or am I seeing this wrong...

Not sure if this'll be an issue or not. A/C will be sharing neutral, but that should be the only thing that'd generate any noise (lights are going to be LED for low heat & no noise). The thing is, you're going to have this situation in any household power, unless you pull in something special from the city...

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  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

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Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:10 pm
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Things slowed considerably after the last update - we got pretty busy with an extended vacation and other family stuff - all good, just halted progress temporarily...

This weekend, we got back to work. Next on the checklist is the ceiling. Spent some time yesterday prepping electrical in the joists and getting a shopping list together. Today, we picked up a drywall lift and the drywall we need. Here's a few pics of the progress.
Image

Image

Image

Image

After getting all the drywall up, we took the lift back & picked up the remaining rockwool and thermal insulation for the ceiling and walls.
Image

Over the next couple of days, I'll be installing the thermal and sound insulation to get things ready for the rest of the interior drywall, which we hope to be installing over the next couple weekends. If I can at least get the rockwool in place, I might be able to get a somewhat viable test with the amp out there on Monday to see how the mitigation strategy is stacking up. Fingers crossed :cool: .

I really can't wait to get the power & A/C going. It was BLAZING hot and humid out there today. Crazy summer - hardly broke 100 in July & August (we regularly hit 100-110 during those months), but we're paying the price now.

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Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:30 pm
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GABmiral
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Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:29 am
Posts: 14250
Location: Riverside, CA
...forgot to add - its amazing how the ceiling changed the acoustics in the space. Getting a crazy slapback echo in there right now. I can see I'm going to definitely have to do some acoustic treating to keep things workable, especially when the drywall goes up on the walls. I've been looking at quite a few DIY bass trap setups, and that'll probably be one of the first things I do when I start moving equipment into the room.

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:34 pm
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GABmiral
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Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:29 am
Posts: 14250
Location: Riverside, CA
Got some more done this morning...

Finished up roughing-in the last of the electrical wiring. Caulked the drywall ceiling seams on the perimeter and where the pieces meet, to hopefully plug any potential sound leaks before I butt the wall drywall and start taping everything. I'm going to run a bead of sealant wherever walls meet at the corners, where they meet the ceiling, and at the floor. If I do it right, the hot air that the A/C unit exhausts will suck all the air from the room in short order. We'll keep it from becoming a death trap by putting in an air intake (through a muffler, similar to the exhaust) across the room.

Last bit was installing about 2/3 of the rockwool sound absorbing insulation above the ceiling. The temp got so bad, I was literally sweating a river in the attic space, and had to stop.

Anywho, here's pics of the progress

Here's what I started with (had about 2/3 of the attic floor open):
Image

And here's where I stopped. 7 bays of itchy rockwool :)
Image

This is the other side - about 4 bays to go. The OSB will form a floor and be topped with something else for extra strength & durability for storage. Once I get the thermal insulation on top of the rockwool, I'll move the OSB so I can do this side.
Image

Going to a family party for the afternoon to go soak in the pool. Hopefully I'll get a bit more done tomorrow

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:38 pm
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GABmiral
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Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:29 am
Posts: 14250
Location: Riverside, CA
Mid-weekend update...

Since my last posting, I managed to get the ceiling fully rockwool'd and covered with thermal insulation I've still got to do a bit of detail up there, then will be installing a layer of 4x8 sheets of 1/2" OSB that will be covered with another layer of 1/4" masonite hardboard sheets. This serves two purposes - completes the sound mitigation above and gives me quite a bit of storage space for camping / holiday / other stuff that we don't need access to all the time. Still anxious to see how the ceiling system will perform - that's the only area we didn't decouple inner from outer layer, whereas the walls were all decoupled using staggered studs. Hopefully all the rockwool & thermal insulation and all the extra caulking / sealing around the framing & drywall will do a good job killing quite a bit of the sound waves heading upward.

Rockwool installation into the walls was next on the list. Interesting stuff, that's for sure. Its fairly stiff (at least compared to the normal thermal stuff I'm familiar with), cuts with a serrated bread knife, and can even be carved / sculpted to work around blocks, electrical boxes, pipes, etc. Here's a a couple shots of the work in progress.

Image

Image

...and the (mostly) finished product

Image

Image

_________________
Co-founder of the Jet Setters 2.0 (Jet ★ City Lounge Redux)

Gear
  • CEOwLP (Sig T), Carvin DC135, Squier strat
  • DSL100H, 1960AX, Mark III, homebrew 2x12 (C90 / EVM12L Thiele), '73 Fender Pro Reverb, POD HD500X (Church rig), JCA50H
  • PLX GABion, Crybaby, Small Clone, DL8, MXR108, Algal clone, Pharaoh (thanks Greg :bow:)

DIY

Help out MISTER NOBODY: https://www.gofundme.com/34f76sf4


Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:20 am
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Hall of Fame Member
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:17 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: British isles
That is just awesome. Great job and I love how the whole family is involved.

Mark me as impressed.

_________________
Gear
Gibson les paul standard, les Paul signature T, Fender strats, black US blue Japanese , Marshall JVM 205c (Dan gower modded) some pedals (some modded) Yamaha THR10


Spam zero at the mo


Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:26 am
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