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I was ordained to the priesthood on 1 February 2018 
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GuitarBilly wrote:
DoubleBarrel wrote:
GuitarBilly wrote:
DoubleBarrel wrote:
Why are atheists and agnostics always so angry, combative and intolerant ?

They're not. I can literally name 100s of non-religious people I personally know that are not like that at all. Myself included.

If that's your experience, maybe you need to meet/deal with better people in general. Which invariably starts with bettering yourself. Ultimately, you will take in what you put out.


Most of the angry, combative, intolerant agnostics/atheists I know are here at GAB :lol:

My non-GAB life is full of happy people, including me.

As a moderator, I've noticed that at least here, the amount of angry/combative etc members on this type of thread is about 50/50 between religious/not.

I also happened to notice that you're invariably involved in every single one of them. But the problem with self-awareness is if you don't have it, you don't know you don't have it. :idea:

So keep telling us what a great, happy, non-combative/instigating/angry member you are :x I am sure it echoes really well in your head :lol:


Physician, heal thyself.


Why are you mad at me ?????? Where in this thread have I been combative/angry/instigative ????


Yes, I enjoy a healthy debate. But that doesn't mean I am unhappy. :idea:


or is this about the Jake E lee thing :lol:


Last edited by DoubleBarrel on Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:46 pm
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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Sex Panther wrote:

How can someone be sick of their laws and opinions if they don't participate in an organized religion? Hey, I don't like sushi so, therefore anyone who eats it is stupid! :lol:

If my tax dollars were being spent, to pay Congressmen to debate laws based on the Lord of the Rings, I'd be angry too.
But, your tax dollars are not being distributed to churches therefore, your analogy is not valid. Yes, they get tax credits but, that's not the same thing (and I do believe religious organizations should pay taxes.).

I have been an atheist since I was 16 or 17 and I stopped patting myself on the back (for being one) a long time ago - it's just a cheap ego boost.
Atheists/agnostics tend to grossly generalize that ALL religions are dogmatic and force their members to believe in myths and legends.
This is simply not true and if you read and understood what Drea has been writing, you would realize that he is not a blind, dogmatic, literalist.
Not sure where all the hostility is coming from. :idk:


I'm not hostile by any means.

I ever mentioned tax dollars being distributed to churches...or anything even remotely close, so I have no clue what that has to do with the Lord of the Rings analogy...perhaps you need to re-read my post.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:48 pm
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draelyc wrote:
clipless bumper wrote:
ZEEGLER wrote:
......Easter for example comes from Oestre, a pagan fertility celebration. Hence the eggs.......


Thanks, I have always wondered about those eggs.......

draelyc wrote:
......Also, Oesrtre was an Anglo Saxon deity, but it wasn't the source of the Christian Easter celebration. Scholars (i.e., NOT theologians) have debunked that pretty thoroughly.......


Can you explain the eggs then?


They're where chickens come from? :p



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Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:50 pm
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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Telephant wrote:
draelyc wrote:
G-SPACE wrote:
So, is this how the crusades started?


Naw, that was greedy Europeans bastardizing Christianity as an excuse to plunder the near east. :cop:


Horse shit. How many crusade battles were there versus battles where Muslims were invading Europe? Hint: its lopsided af.


I agree, the Europeans attacked the Muslims more than the Muslims attacked the Europeans.
Grime was joking that, the Crusades started the same way that this thread is going - by an argument over religious differences.
Drae disagreed, adding that it was the European leadership, who used religion as way to convince people to leave their homes, who started the Crusades.


Confusing. I thought Telephant was referring to the Muslims invading Spain, North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, the Balkans, etc. Makes anything the crusaders did seem like small potatoes.

At any rate, Christian vs. Christian infighting like the 30 Years War was pretty terrible and probably more what the founders had in mind when they kept the church and state separate.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:51 pm
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draelyc wrote:
Again, that only "disproves" anything if one were foolish or uneducated enough to mistake those texts for attempts at empirical science as understood post-Francis Bacon. Which would be downright silly. Especially since the very authors of those texts didn't see them or intend them in any such way.

So now we've come full, if unproductive, circle. You never responded to my actual counterpoint to your claim. You just kept doubling down. Okay, cool.

Look, I got nothing against you. Keep believing what you want to believe. But if you want me to agree with you, then you have to make sense, you have to understand that words have meanings, and you have to bother to examine not just the points that you make, but the points that others make as well. Them's the rules of adult discourse. :thu:


LO-FUCKING-L at you of all people talking about doubling down...

I addressed your point, you just ignored it because it's not convenient for you to read. I stated that there are drones of people who take the Bible literally at its word and base their fucking entire worldview around it. By that metric science HAS disproved MUCH of the Bible. That is fact, not some make believe BS. It doesn't matter if it's meant to be scientific if millions of people use it to try to argue against science.

At the end of the day, this is a waste of time. Last time we argued, you said I was wrong based on a specific book...I used a direct quote from that book to show that it actually agreed with me and you didn't care...you said you were gonna continue to believe what you wanted. So don't preach to me about adult discourse, because you have no clue how it works. :thu:


Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 pm
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draelyc wrote:
GuitarBilly wrote:
draelyc wrote:
Sounds great. And fuck all the poor people who'd die in the process, right? I mean, it's for the greater good, after all...

Charity is a tax break regardless of whether the source is religious or not. I've volunteered for a non-profit animal rescue for years and they did not have an inch of religion in it.

The idea that religious institutions instantly gets non-profit/charitable status is ridiculous. Some deserve it, some don't.


You're absolutely right. But the whole "WE CAN FIX EVERYTHING IF WE JUST TAX THE CHURCHES" argument lumps all of them in together, and while it wouldn't even dent the scandalous megachurches' budgets, it would destroy the small parishes that keep the poor in their local communities afloat.

Never even heard that argument (but I am sure is out there, some people also think the earth is flat so anything is possible).

The argument I usually hear is they should be taxed on their income and deduct their charity like everybody else.

If a small parish really helps the poor they will have a huge tax deduction at the end of the year so it won't destroy them at all.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:56 pm
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DoubleBarrel wrote:
ok, what current US laws are based on, to use your terms 'fantasy" ? Seems to me I remember a part of the constitution about the separation of church and state. :idk:


Are you being intentionally obtuse?

There are still states that don't allow gay marriage. Is it because it's "yucky" or is it because their bible says it's "wrong"?

There's one glaring example...

Toss in alcohol sales being prohibited on Sundays, etc., and it can add up.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:01 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
ajaxlepinski wrote:
Sex Panther wrote:

How can someone be sick of their laws and opinions if they don't participate in an organized religion? Hey, I don't like sushi so, therefore anyone who eats it is stupid! :lol:

If my tax dollars were being spent, to pay Congressmen to debate laws based on the Lord of the Rings, I'd be angry too.
But, your tax dollars are not being distributed to churches therefore, your analogy is not valid. Yes, they get tax credits but, that's not the same thing (and I do believe religious organizations should pay taxes.).

I have been an atheist since I was 16 or 17 and I stopped patting myself on the back (for being one) a long time ago - it's just a cheap ego boost.
Atheists/agnostics tend to grossly generalize that ALL religions are dogmatic and force their members to believe in myths and legends.
This is simply not true and if you read and understood what Drea has been writing, you would realize that he is not a blind, dogmatic, literalist.
Not sure where all the hostility is coming from. :idk:


I'm not hostile by any means.

I ever mentioned tax dollars being distributed to churches...or anything even remotely close, so I have no clue what that has to do with the Lord of the Rings analogy...perhaps you need to re-read my post.


Uh, OK.

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Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Last edited by ajaxlepinski on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:01 pm
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Congratulations draelyc!!


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:02 pm
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clipless bumper wrote:
Congratulations draelyc!!



Ditto!!! :hi5:

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Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:05 pm
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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Uh,OK.


My quote that you responded to...word for word:

Quote:
I dunno, maybe they're sick of laws and opinions being based on Fantasy.

If congress started debating laws based on The Lord of the Rings, you might not be thrilled with it either...


Exactly which part of this post has to do with taxes being distributed to churches? I'll wait...


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:05 pm
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GuitarBilly wrote:
Never even heard that argument (but I am sure is out there, some people also think the earth is flat so anything is possible).

The argument I usually hear is they should be taxed on their income and deduct their charity like everybody else.

If a small parish really helps the poor they will have a huge tax deduction at the end of the year so it won't destroy them at all.


This would be a giant mess in no time.

Government gets a taste of church revenue, wants more, promotes religion.

Government officials loyal to one church or another figure out ways for their own to take advantage while putting the screws to others.

Yes there is a cost to letting some tax revenue slip away but linking religious activity to secular government budgets is just asking for trouble.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:07 pm
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Wayne wrote:
GuitarBilly wrote:
Never even heard that argument (but I am sure is out there, some people also think the earth is flat so anything is possible).

The argument I usually hear is they should be taxed on their income and deduct their charity like everybody else.

If a small parish really helps the poor they will have a huge tax deduction at the end of the year so it won't destroy them at all.


This would be a giant mess in no time.

Government gets a taste of church revenue, wants more, promotes religion.

Government officials loyal to one church or another figure out ways for their own to take advantage while putting the screws to others.

Yes there is a cost to letting some tax revenue slip away but linking religious activity to secular government budgets is just asking for trouble.



Church gerrymandering... what will they think of next? :lol:

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Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 pm
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GuitarBilly wrote:
draelyc wrote:
GuitarBilly wrote:
draelyc wrote:
Sounds great. And fuck all the poor people who'd die in the process, right? I mean, it's for the greater good, after all...

Charity is a tax break regardless of whether the source is religious or not. I've volunteered for a non-profit animal rescue for years and they did not have an inch of religion in it.

The idea that religious institutions instantly gets non-profit/charitable status is ridiculous. Some deserve it, some don't.


You're absolutely right. But the whole "WE CAN FIX EVERYTHING IF WE JUST TAX THE CHURCHES" argument lumps all of them in together, and while it wouldn't even dent the scandalous megachurches' budgets, it would destroy the small parishes that keep the poor in their local communities afloat.

Never even heard that argument (but I am sure is out there, some people also think the earth is flat so anything is possible).

The argument I usually hear is they should be taxed on their income and deduct their charity like everybody else.

If a small parish really helps the poor they will have a huge tax deduction at the end of the year so it won't destroy them at all.


Yeah, I guess I'm just iffy about the government's ability to make changes to the current situation whilst being mindful of the potentially devastating ramifications upon vulnerable populations (especially poor and brown ones), so that's where my reticence comes from.

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Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
ajaxlepinski wrote:
Uh,OK.


My quote that you responded to...word for word:

Quote:
I dunno, maybe they're sick of laws and opinions being based on Fantasy.

If congress started debating laws based on The Lord of the Rings, you might not be thrilled with it either...


Exactly which part of this post has to do with taxes being distributed to churches? I'll wait...


Why else would anyone be upset at our Congressmen debating over Lord of the Rings laws if, it they weren't wasting tax payer dollars in the process?
If Congress wasn't wasting money, why would anyone be upset? If Churches aren't wasting tax payer dollars, why would anyone be upset?
Who cares???
Hence, my disagreement with your analogy.

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Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Last edited by ajaxlepinski on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:11 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
draelyc wrote:
Again, that only "disproves" anything if one were foolish or uneducated enough to mistake those texts for attempts at empirical science as understood post-Francis Bacon. Which would be downright silly. Especially since the very authors of those texts didn't see them or intend them in any such way.

So now we've come full, if unproductive, circle. You never responded to my actual counterpoint to your claim. You just kept doubling down. Okay, cool.

Look, I got nothing against you. Keep believing what you want to believe. But if you want me to agree with you, then you have to make sense, you have to understand that words have meanings, and you have to bother to examine not just the points that you make, but the points that others make as well. Them's the rules of adult discourse. :thu:


LO-FUCKING-L at you of all people talking about doubling down...

I addressed your point, you just ignored it because it's not convenient for you to read. I stated that there are drones of people who take the Bible literally at its word and base their fucking entire worldview around it. By that metric science HAS disproved MUCH of the Bible. That is fact, not some make believe BS. It doesn't matter if it's meant to be scientific if millions of people use it to try to argue against science.

At the end of the day, this is a waste of time. Last time we argued, you said I was wrong based on a specific book...I used a direct quote from that book to show that it actually agreed with me and you didn't care...you said you were gonna continue to believe what you wanted. So don't preach to me about adult discourse, because you have no clue how it works. :thu:


Wow. That obviously impacted you a lot more deeply than it did me, as I have no memory of that. Before you come back with "how convenient for you," understand that I say this sincerely: I apologize for however I've wronged you in past conversations. I honestly don't remember that exchange, so I won't try to refute what you're saying. I'll just say I'm sorry.

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:12 pm
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Wayne wrote:
GuitarBilly wrote:
Never even heard that argument (but I am sure is out there, some people also think the earth is flat so anything is possible).

The argument I usually hear is they should be taxed on their income and deduct their charity like everybody else.

If a small parish really helps the poor they will have a huge tax deduction at the end of the year so it won't destroy them at all.


This would be a giant mess in no time.

Government gets a taste of church revenue, wants more, promotes religion.

Government officials loyal to one church or another figure out ways for their own to take advantage while putting the screws to others.


Yes there is a cost to letting some tax revenue slip away but linking religious activity to secular government budgets is just asking for trouble.

Oh as if that doesn't happen already??? Ever heard of "value voters" and their superpacks?? :rofl:

Please tell me with a straight face that religion has NO influence in govt.

Also, true separation of church and state happens when churches cease to have a special tax shelter just for being religious.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:13 pm
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ajaxlepinski wrote:
clipless bumper wrote:
Congratulations draelyc!!



Ditto!!! :hi5:


Thanks, y'all.

Honestly, the only purpose I had in mind originally when posting this thread was just to share a milestone.

At this point, if anybody else wants to say anything stupid or uninformed about the Bible, Christianity, religion in general, and/or my life's work overall, feel free to have at it. :thu: I've said what I have to say on those points, and if someone is actually interesting in having a conversation, as opposed to public grandstanding, there's plenty of room in my pm inbox. :idea:

Billy, I hope you won't feel the need to lock this thread. Fwiw, I'm calling a "cease fire" on my end, and I'll ignore any further pissing matches here.

Thanks for all the well-wishes, those of you who've been kind enough to wish me well. :heart:

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


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MY REVERBNATION PAGE!


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:16 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
DoubleBarrel wrote:
ok, what current US laws are based on, to use your terms 'fantasy" ? Seems to me I remember a part of the constitution about the separation of church and state. :idk:


Are you being intentionally obtuse?

There are still states that don't allow gay marriage. Is it because it's "yucky" or is it because their bible says it's "wrong"?

There's one glaring example...

Toss in alcohol sales being prohibited on Sundays, etc., and it can add up.



Really ? That's your examples of "faith based" laws ? Gay marriage and booze ? :lol: NONE of which are federal laws btw.

Try being gay, or drinking in a Muslim theocracy and see whats happens. Those are religious based laws. :idea:


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:19 pm
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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Why else would anyone be upset at our Congressmen debating over Lord of the Rings laws if, it they weren't wasting tax payer dollars in the process?
If Congress wasn't wasting money, why would anyone be upset? If Churches aren't wasting tax payer dollars, why would anyone be upset?
Who cares???
Hence, my disagreement with your analogy.


:freak:

lmao...

So you're perfectly fine with laws that dictate the way you legally have to live being based on fantasy? Really? The only reason you care about laws is based on what your taxes pay for?


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm
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Yay! The atheists wore out the Padre! You win!!!

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Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
ajaxlepinski wrote:
Why else would anyone be upset at our Congressmen debating over Lord of the Rings laws if, it they weren't wasting tax payer dollars in the process?
If Congress wasn't wasting money, why would anyone be upset? If Churches aren't wasting tax payer dollars, why would anyone be upset?
Who cares???
Hence, my disagreement with your analogy.


:freak:

lmao...

So you're perfectly fine with laws that dictate the way you legally have to live being based on fantasy? Really? The only reason you care about laws is based on what your taxes pay for?


Comprehension fail.
I'm worn out too. You win!!!! Wooo hooo!!! :thu:

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Walt wrote:
But when the hour is nigh, and the lights are low, and I got a little toothpick of a shwag joint in my teeth, and my friends want to hear me play "Into the Void", or "TNT", "or "Cemetery Gates"...I plug my 600 dollar guitar into my 150 dollar amp, and I am a Rawk gawd.


Last edited by ajaxlepinski on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm
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draelyc wrote:
Wow. That obviously impacted you a lot more deeply than it did me, as I have no memory of that. Before you come back with "how convenient for you," understand that I say this sincerely: I apologize for however I've wronged you in past conversations. I honestly don't remember that exchange, so I won't try to refute what you're saying. I'll just say I'm sorry.


Didn't really impact me at all, I just have a good memory and thought it was funny if nothing else...

It was nothing personal, so there's no reason to apologize...you've never wronged me.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:23 pm
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Congrats Drae! You have put a lot of work into getting there!

One thing on religion trying to control the masses I found interesting. When I was studying art history, the topic of gargoyles on the cathedrals were discussed. They were used to scare people to come to church. I found that rather interesting to be honest. Not trying to fuel the argument, but just rather throwing in something that captivated my thought at the time.

Cole

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:23 pm
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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Comprehension fail.


Clearly...on your end.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
ajaxlepinski wrote:
Comprehension fail.


Clearly...on your end.


Cheers.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 pm
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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Yay! The atheists wore out the Padre! You win!!!


I don't have the patience I did when I was 29, that's for sure. :lol:

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Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


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Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:27 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
draelyc wrote:
Wow. That obviously impacted you a lot more deeply than it did me, as I have no memory of that. Before you come back with "how convenient for you," understand that I say this sincerely: I apologize for however I've wronged you in past conversations. I honestly don't remember that exchange, so I won't try to refute what you're saying. I'll just say I'm sorry.


Didn't really impact me at all, I just have a good memory and thought it was funny if nothing else...

It was nothing personal, so there's no reason to apologize...you've never wronged me.


That's kind of you. Thank you.

What book was it, btw?

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


_______

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:28 pm
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DoubleBarrel wrote:
Really ? That's your examples of "faith based" laws ? Gay marriage and booze ? :lol: NONE of which are federal laws btw.

Try being gay, or drinking in a Muslim theocracy and see whats happens. Those are religious based laws. :idea:


I posted two examples when you said there were none. There are more, and you apparently are being intentionally obtuse. Throw abortion in there too...

And boy, there's really a reading comprehension issue with you guys today...

I didn't say federal law. I mentioned Congress and laws...which applies to State and local government as well. Please point out in my post where I mentioned Federal laws...again...I'll wait...

This has nothing to do with Muslim countries and their bullshit laws...but if anything, that proves my point that laws should not in any way be based on fantasy.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:28 pm
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I don't think wearing someone out equals winning unless you're running a marathon :lol:

So yeah no one changed their minds and there are no prizes for the "winners". :)

It's a great way to spend our work day though isn't it? Please give me 3 more hours. I am on PST! :lol:

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:29 pm
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colejustesen wrote:
Congrats Drae! You have put a lot of work into getting there!

One thing on religion trying to control the masses I found interesting. When I was studying art history, the topic of gargoyles on the cathedrals were discussed. They were used to scare people to come to church. I found that rather interesting to be honest. Not trying to fuel the argument, but just rather throwing in something that captivated my thought at the time.

Cole


Interesting. That's nothing I've ever read ~ most accounts I've seen say they were created to scare off evil spirits, a continuation of European pagan practices. :idk: :hmm:

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:29 pm
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draelyc wrote:
That's kind of you. Thank you.

What book was it, btw?


I can argue/debate like an MFer and never take it personally, even if it is made personal. Unless someone brings my family into it, I'm good. I don't care what anyone says about me. (I know you would never...just stating how I feel about debating on the internets in general)

We were debating something, I don't even remember what...but you said I was wrong because it wasn't in the DSM-5. I then found it in the DSM-5 and posted the quote and you dismissed it and said you were gonna believe what you were gonna believe anyway :lol: :lol: :lol:


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:31 pm
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colejustesen wrote:
Congrats Drae! You have put a lot of work into getting there!

One thing on religion trying to control the masses I found interesting. When I was studying art history, the topic of gargoyles on the cathedrals were discussed. They were used to scare people to come to church. I found that rather interesting to be honest. Not trying to fuel the argument, but just rather throwing in something that captivated my thought at the time.

Cole


Churches still use gargoyles today.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:32 pm
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GuitarBilly wrote:
I don't think wearing someone out equals winning unless you're running a marathon :lol:

So yeah no one changed their minds and there are no prizes for the "winners". :)

It's a great way to spend our work day though isn't it? Please give me 3 more hours. I am on PST! :lol:


:lol: "I exist only to serve..." :angel:

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:33 pm
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GuitarBilly wrote:
Wayne wrote:

This would be a giant mess in no time.

Government gets a taste of church revenue, wants more, promotes religion.

Government officials loyal to one church or another figure out ways for their own to take advantage while putting the screws to others.


Yes there is a cost to letting some tax revenue slip away but linking religious activity to secular government budgets is just asking for trouble.

Oh as if that doesn't happen already??? Ever heard of "value voters" and their superpacks?? :rofl:

Please tell me with a straight face that religion has NO influence in govt.

Also, true separation of church and state happens when churches cease to have a special tax shelter just for being religious.


Donating towards a political candidate vs. paying taxes are two different things. We're also talking millions vs. billions of dollars.

Besides, I don't think political donations are deductable. At least most of the charities I give to have separate line items for donations to their PAC that I almost always ignore.

There is no rule that churches can't attempt to influence the government. The first amendment restrains the government side of things only.

GuitarBilly wrote:
It's a great way to spend our work day though isn't it? Please give me 3 more hours. I am on PST! :lol:


:) yes this is fun.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:36 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
draelyc wrote:
That's kind of you. Thank you.

What book was it, btw?


I can argue/debate like an MFer and never take it personally, even if it is made personal. Unless someone brings my family into it, I'm good. I don't care what anyone says about me. (I know you would never...just stating how I feel about debating on the internets in general)


Again, that's kind of you. :thu:

Quote:

We were debating something, I don't even remember what...but you said I was wrong because it wasn't in the DSM-5. I then found it in the DSM-5 and posted the quote and you dismissed it and said you were gonna believe what you were gonna believe anyway :lol: :lol: :lol:


Wow. I truly have no memory of that. I would swear under oath with my hand on a Bible that I would never say "I'm just going to believe what I'm going to believe anyway," unless I were joking. So here I am in the middle of an ethical quandary ~ I can't remember this incident, and that doesn't sound like something I'd ever say, but you remember it clearly and tell me that's what I said.

All I can offer in response is that if I did indeed say that, I was way out of line.

Again, wow. I'm stunned, to be honest. My wife is a music therapist by training, and I would not dismiss the DSM-5 as being irrelevant, ever. At least I wouldn't these days, and don't remember having done so in the past. Disturbing.

Thanks for the details.

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


_______

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:43 pm
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draelyc wrote:
Wow. I truly have no memory of that. I would swear under oath with my hand on a Bible that I would never say "I'm just going to believe what I'm going to believe anyway," unless I were joking. So here I am in the middle of an ethical quandary ~ I can't remember this incident, and that doesn't sound like something I'd ever say, but you remember it clearly and tell me that's what I said.

All I can offer in response is that if I did indeed say that, I was way out of line.

Again, wow. I'm stunned, to be honest. My wife is a music therapist by training, and I would not dismiss the DSM-5 as being irrelevant, ever. At least I wouldn't these days, and don't remember having done so in the past. Disturbing.

Thanks for the details.


Oh, that's definitely not a word for word quote lol...but it was close enough. You definitely didn't dismiss it as irrelevant, as a matter of fact...you thought it was NOT in the DSM-5, which you used as a reason for your side of the debate.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:48 pm
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Sex Panther wrote:
draelyc wrote:
Wow. I truly have no memory of that. I would swear under oath with my hand on a Bible that I would never say "I'm just going to believe what I'm going to believe anyway," unless I were joking. So here I am in the middle of an ethical quandary ~ I can't remember this incident, and that doesn't sound like something I'd ever say, but you remember it clearly and tell me that's what I said.

All I can offer in response is that if I did indeed say that, I was way out of line.

Again, wow. I'm stunned, to be honest. My wife is a music therapist by training, and I would not dismiss the DSM-5 as being irrelevant, ever. At least I wouldn't these days, and don't remember having done so in the past. Disturbing.

Thanks for the details.


Oh, that's definitely not a word for word quote lol...but it was close enough. You definitely didn't dismiss it as irrelevant, as a matter of fact...you thought it was NOT in the DSM-5, which you used as a reason for your side of the debate.


Okay, well, it sounds like I was mistaken, and I try my best to own my mistakes. Hence the apology. :thu:

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


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Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:03 pm
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The argument to go tax exempt was brought about b/c, at the time, it was perceived the church had "too much influence on government". That's a bit of a misnomer actually as the church has pretty much always been tax exempt. But, over the decades, the influence was deemed detrimental to the general good of the nation. It simply didn't reflect the growing progressive mindset.

In the very early days of our country schools, orphanages, hospitals, the poor etc. were dealt with -at least primarily- thru' the church. All fine and good when the 'powers that be' kept to their respective roles. Church has a symbiotic relationship with the immediate community and the governing municipality had a similar type of relationship over the community at large.

As communities grew and matured, they're were changes in idiology (social, political and even spiritual) and becoming more diverse.
That meant the municipality grew with it...but not so much the local church who felt they've invested so much into 'their' community. (even if that community is changing).

Simply put, by the 1950s the municipalities (and an a larger scale the feds) had had enough of the churches influence. One way to 'control' that was to make them a 501c3. IF you look up the definition of any 501c3 you'd find that they are NOT allowed to publically side with or endorse or give monies to any political candidate.
When it came to politics, the church MUST stay publically neutral.

It is in fact the government that is (trying) to keep the church out of politics. Of course they're are loop holes and of course the members of the church are free to vote their conscience...but the "Church" isn't allowed to get involved.

If you want the church to get involved in politics freely? Take the 501c3/tax exemption away. :evil:

You really wanna bitch about tax exemption? What of the NFL? :freak: YES they do good, but so does most of my neighborhood. They get a meager right off at best if they donate to the goodwill or whatever. They get nothing for donating their time to food banks/soup kitchens.

But the NFL gets exemption for doing the same (on a much larger scale sure but...)?

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:14 pm
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Chris Z wrote:
draelyc wrote:
Chris Z wrote:
Religion is bullshit.


Your confusing thesis has captured my attention. Tell me more.

Perhaps I can subscribe to your newsletter?



Religion has killed more people than anything else. Created to extort and control the masses.


Yes, encouraging people to treat others with respect and compassion is such a devious plot.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:33 pm
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Congrats Drae!

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:09 pm
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DoubleBarrel wrote:
Sex Panther wrote:
DoubleBarrel wrote:
ok, what current US laws are based on, to use your terms 'fantasy" ? Seems to me I remember a part of the constitution about the separation of church and state. :idk:


Are you being intentionally obtuse?

There are still states that don't allow gay marriage. Is it because it's "yucky" or is it because their bible says it's "wrong"?

There's one glaring example...

Toss in alcohol sales being prohibited on Sundays, etc., and it can add up.



Really ? That's your examples of "faith based" laws ? Gay marriage and booze ? :lol: NONE of which are federal laws btw.

Try being gay, or drinking in a Muslim theocracy and see whats happens. Those are religious based laws. :idea:




I still drank in Muslim countries. They still sell it. American blue laws are Christian based bullshit. Same reason we outlaw prostitution.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:17 pm
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Dave wrote:
I still drank in Muslim countries. They still sell it. American blue laws are Christian based bullshit. Same reason we outlaw prostitution.


Shhh...that doesn't jive with the alternative facts here lol


Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:20 pm
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We are only 12 days into the new year and I'm going to go ahead and nominate this for thread of the year. :lol:

When someone on this board does a HNGD thread most of the comments are civil and for the most part congratulatory. You won't see too many "Strats are pieces of shit" or "Les Pauls are for fags" comments. Yet Chris does what is basically the same kind of thread for his new career and about half the board comes in to tell him his life's work is shit. :lol: I love this place!

Wouldn't it be better just to congratulate Chris on his accomplishment and save the debate for later? :idk:

With that I'll just say congratulations Chris! I'm glad for you that you've found something to dedicate your life to and to be passionate about that has nothing to do with string gauges and pickup height. Way to go and I hope it brings you much happiness. :thu:

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:30 pm
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Diddlybo wrote:
We are only 12 days into the new year and I'm going to go ahead and nominate this for thread of the year. :lol:

When someone on this board does a HNGD thread most of the comments are civil and for the most part congratulatory. You won't see too many "Strats are pieces of shit" or "Les Pauls are for fags" comments. Yet Chris does what is basically the same kind of thread for his new career and about half the board comes in to tell him his life's work is shit. :lol: I love this place!

Wouldn't it be better just to congratulate Chris on his accomplishment and save the debate for later? :idk:

With that I'll just say congratulations Chris! I'm glad for you that you've found something to dedicate your life to and to be passionate about that has nothing to do with string gauges and pickup height. Way to go and I hope it brings you much happiness. :thu:


NO.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:39 pm
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If there is one thing I believe in, it is that every man should be able to waste their life doing whatever they want, believe in, or whatever. As long as it doesn't affect me. Right now it does since politics in my country is wrapped up in theology. Having said that, to each his own.

Quote:
If you study anthropology and history, you can make and equally (if not more so) compelling case that we are born *with* religion, and that even in places where it has been repressed, it still flourishes, and that these observations strongly indicate that religion is not only not superfluous but is rather part and parcel of what it is to be human. Just sayin'.


In history when people didn't understand the world around them, they invented religion(s). Lots of them.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:40 pm
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draelyc wrote:
colejustesen wrote:
Congrats Drae! You have put a lot of work into getting there!

One thing on religion trying to control the masses I found interesting. When I was studying art history, the topic of gargoyles on the cathedrals were discussed. They were used to scare people to come to church. I found that rather interesting to be honest. Not trying to fuel the argument, but just rather throwing in something that captivated my thought at the time.

Cole


Interesting. That's nothing I've ever read ~ most accounts I've seen say they were created to scare off evil spirits, a continuation of European pagan practices. :idk: :hmm:


I thought they were there to drain water from the roof?? :idk:


Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:13 pm
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greatmutah wrote:
Congrats Drae!


Thanks, Mutah!!! :thu:

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


_______

MY REVERBNATION PAGE!


Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:39 pm
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Diddlybo wrote:
We are only 12 days into the new year and I'm going to go ahead and nominate this for thread of the year. :lol:

When someone on this board does a HNGD thread most of the comments are civil and for the most part congratulatory. You won't see too many "Strats are pieces of shit" or "Les Pauls are for fags" comments. Yet Chris does what is basically the same kind of thread for his new career and about half the board comes in to tell him his life's work is shit. :lol: I love this place!

Wouldn't it be better just to congratulate Chris on his accomplishment and save the debate for later? :idk:

With that I'll just say congratulations Chris! I'm glad for you that you've found something to dedicate your life to and to be passionate about that has nothing to do with string gauges and pickup height. Way to go and I hope it brings you much happiness. :thu:


Den for a scum ~ you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy... :lol:

Thanks, Diddly. Much appreciated, mang. :thu:

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


_______

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:40 pm
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redeyes wrote:
If there is one thing I believe in, it is that every man should be able to waste their life doing whatever they want, believe in, or whatever. As long as it doesn't affect me. Right now it does since politics in my country is wrapped up in theology. Having said that, to each his own.

Quote:
If you study anthropology and history, you can make and equally (if not more so) compelling case that we are born *with* religion, and that even in places where it has been repressed, it still flourishes, and that these observations strongly indicate that religion is not only not superfluous but is rather part and parcel of what it is to be human. Just sayin'.


In history when people didn't understand the world around them, they invented religion(s). Lots of them.


Or they were simply better in-tune with the nature of existence and reality than we fragmented, post-modern, overly-materialist, malnourished, and chronically unhappy Modern Folk can manage to imagine. Either way. :idk: :lol:

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ajaxlepinski wrote:
Lack of personal style? Dude, you're the Sean Connery of GAB! :lol:


Dave wrote:
Draelyc - can write a solid song, and play tasty leads despite his internal neurotic tendencies. Despite a million debates raging in his head over string guage, pickup height, Pete Townshend's sexual history, and pick material he makes his Shiva give up the goods. Plus his unplugged electric tone... well... it exists.


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Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:43 pm
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